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Why I reject the BBI
alma1
#121 Posted : Saturday, November 30, 2019 1:37:20 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/19/2015
Posts: 2,560
Location: hapo
newfarer wrote:
Amores wrote:
@alma, I think one of the issue some find it hard to engage you is that you are quite condescending. No one is listening to Itumbi, I have read BBI for myself ( summary hapo at the end). I am looking at the political space and I can tell you that people are angry.I also follow twitter, i can tell sponsored threads and the ones that are not, the ones that keep going from angry KOT. Kama moja, the youth made it trend for 2 days :)

In fact this is what Uhuru didto Joho just before the last elections. He would get drunk, go to coasto, tisha joho, people still laughed at uhuru and voted Joho.

In Kenya, what we have is political thuggery, selfish interest and politics is expedience. Matiangi going to lecture people in Kirinyaga might backfire ( I am not saying it will not work as state machinery can be ruthless and should not be underestimated
, all I am saying is do not also under estimate people who are hungry, jobless and hungry, and then being told about referendum and BBI nonsense.

What happened in Kirinyaga yesterday is telling. Kamanda took Nyef nyef there,people told off. Then there was talk that people were paid heckle ( i dont know if this is the case) but why was he only person who was heckled and told aketi ?

As for Kuria, maybe he doesn't want to go back, maybe Uhenye will vie in Gatundu so that Raila can make him PM, who knows! hehehe !


Let the circus continue.

Last time when i was in Kenya hata mimi nilisikia mlima iko ngumu kupanda kwa cost of living. Hata kununua goods, ilibidi i shorten the list .... and I could feel the pain of common mwananchi


Hahahaha huku tunakula chill pill coolaid life is tough


Amores

Remember I was here on this very forum telling you not to vote for these duo.

Now I'm here again telling you, you shall vote for Uhuru mpende msipende. As for Looto, it depends on where he goes to. I advised on this very forum that he take punguza mzigo....He listned to Itumbi.

Amores

Uhuru Kenyatta is the President and Commander in Chief of Kenya

You, like you personally, will go vote for BBI...Mpende msipende

Raila Odinga is the "peoples" president.

You, again shall for BBI

What the hell is Ruto? I mean the guy has the gift of the gab....Lakini. This guy has never won an election in his life.

All he has is

didi nyoro, Ichungwa, waititu, and Oscar Sudi...Like seriously?

Let's be serious for once. Oscar Sudi as the Prime Minister.

You have got to be kidding me.

Ruto is finished.

There is no longer Jubilee.

Accept and move on.

Uhuru Kenyatta is the best president in Kenya in my opinion. Please read my posts about why I did not want him to be president.

No one in Kenya shall ever suffer what happened in 2007 and 1992. There's one common denominator in both. Na mnajua ni nani.

Let him be president if he f***s up your mind. But, he shall never be as powerful as Uhuru is.

Be serious, change your country. BBI is better than having Oscar Sudi as a CS and Ichungwa. You have to be kidding me.
Thieves are not good people. Tumeelewana?
Amores
#122 Posted : Saturday, November 30, 2019 1:51:04 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 11/25/2011
Posts: 2,062
Location: Nrb
newfarer wrote:
Amores wrote:
@alma, I think one of the issue some find it hard to engage you is that you are quite condescending. No one is listening to Itumbi, I have read BBI for myself ( summary hapo at the end). I am looking at the political space and I can tell you that people are angry.I also follow twitter, i can tell sponsored threads and the ones that are not, the ones that keep going from angry KOT. Kama moja, the youth made it trend for 2 days :)

In fact this is what Uhuru didto Joho just before the last elections. He would get drunk, go to coasto, tisha joho, people still laughed at uhuru and voted Joho.

In Kenya, what we have is political thuggery, selfish interest and politics is expedience. Matiangi going to lecture people in Kirinyaga might backfire ( I am not saying it will not work as state machinery can be ruthless and should not be underestimated
, all I am saying is do not also under estimate people who are hungry, jobless and hungry, and then being told about referendum and BBI nonsense.

What happened in Kirinyaga yesterday is telling. Kamanda took Nyef nyef there,people told off. Then there was talk that people were paid heckle ( i dont know if this is the case) but why was he only person who was heckled and told aketi ?

As for Kuria, maybe he doesn't want to go back, maybe Uhenye will vie in Gatundu so that Raila can make him PM, who knows! hehehe !


Let the circus continue.

Last time when i was in Kenya hata mimi nilisikia mlima iko ngumu kupanda kwa cost of living. Hata kununua goods, ilibidi i shorten the list .... and I could feel the pain of common mwananchi


Hahahaha huku tunakula chill pill coolaid life is tough



I know, I felt it. Lakini maybe mambo yata change Maybe wewill have some serious people running, so we can stop recycling the same monkey skwa forest.

Lakini mimi ile kitu sitaki ni referendum,it is uselessand that will be a slap on the face of Kenyans.
I saw your guy MDV talking a lot of sense huko Bomas :)
I am happy
newfarer
#123 Posted : Saturday, November 30, 2019 2:04:00 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/19/2010
Posts: 3,367
Location: Uganda
This BBI is not exciting me ..we don't need any constitutional change. We need to change our attitude and love our country first.
punda amecheka
alma1
#124 Posted : Saturday, November 30, 2019 2:28:13 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/19/2015
Posts: 2,560
Location: hapo
Amores wrote:
newfarer wrote:
Amores wrote:
@alma, I think one of the issue some find it hard to engage you is that you are quite condescending. No one is listening to Itumbi, I have read BBI for myself ( summary hapo at the end). I am looking at the political space and I can tell you that people are angry.I also follow twitter, i can tell sponsored threads and the ones that are not, the ones that keep going from angry KOT. Kama moja, the youth made it trend for 2 days :)

In fact this is what Uhuru didto Joho just before the last elections. He would get drunk, go to coasto, tisha joho, people still laughed at uhuru and voted Joho.

In Kenya, what we have is political thuggery, selfish interest and politics is expedience. Matiangi going to lecture people in Kirinyaga might backfire ( I am not saying it will not work as state machinery can be ruthless and should not be underestimated
, all I am saying is do not also under estimate people who are hungry, jobless and hungry, and then being told about referendum and BBI nonsense.

What happened in Kirinyaga yesterday is telling. Kamanda took Nyef nyef there,people told off. Then there was talk that people were paid heckle ( i dont know if this is the case) but why was he only person who was heckled and told aketi ?

As for Kuria, maybe he doesn't want to go back, maybe Uhenye will vie in Gatundu so that Raila can make him PM, who knows! hehehe !


Let the circus continue.

Last time when i was in Kenya hata mimi nilisikia mlima iko ngumu kupanda kwa cost of living. Hata kununua goods, ilibidi i shorten the list .... and I could feel the pain of common mwananchi


Hahahaha huku tunakula chill pill coolaid life is tough



I know, I felt it. Lakini maybe mambo yata change Maybe wewill have some serious people running, so we can stop recycling the same monkey skwa forest.

Lakini mimi ile kitu sitaki ni referendum,it is uselessand that will be a slap on the face of Kenyans.
I saw your guy MDV talking a lot of sense huko Bomas :)


Yes Mudavadi talked sense. Can you honestly believe that in parliament where we have sudi, did, kuria, etc that we can get the one issue of the elimination of CDF to just get the money to MCA's work?

Be honest.

I have always told you that Looto charo nefa mbe...At least for my vote. I don't know about the 47 million others.

Right now the tanga tanga team is saying through parliament. I think you know why. I know you know why. That CDF and sitting allowances part, they shall tamper with it.

You know and I know and everyone knows.

No my frens

I want to hear Looto and his bunch of liars standing up in public telling us that BBI is bad.

After months of lying, they are ALL OF THEM saying how good it is. BUT, they want to pass it through parliament.

@newfarer. I agree about attitudes but attitudes have to be honest.

The tanga tanga team may be right, or wrong. But we all know they are not honest.

Under Looto we have a bunch of politicians who lie every day even in church and funerals.

I think Uhuru knows this and has called their bluff.

Kenya first just as I want it to be.

I will never ever ever trust my life on this current parliament

I actually can't trust my life on Oscar Sudi.

If you can, shauri yenu.

Ati Oscar Sudi and Didieee Nyorooo working to reduce my taxes.

You have got to be stupid to follow them. But heck it's your choice.
Thieves are not good people. Tumeelewana?
Amores
#125 Posted : Saturday, November 30, 2019 2:43:57 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 11/25/2011
Posts: 2,062
Location: Nrb
newfarer wrote:
This BBI is not exciting me ..we don't need any constitutional change. We need to change our attitude and love our country first.


Here is an article which tries to put the charade into perspective


https://www.aljazeera.co...ry-191128150130076.html

Except for the factual error about 3 years.

Wapi findings za agenda 4?
I am happy
alma1
#126 Posted : Saturday, November 30, 2019 4:31:16 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/19/2015
Posts: 2,560
Location: hapo
Amores wrote:
newfarer wrote:
This BBI is not exciting me ..we don't need any constitutional change. We need to change our attitude and love our country first.


Here is an article which tries to put the charade into perspective


https://www.aljazeera.co...ry-191128150130076.html

Except for the factual error about 3 years.

Wapi findings za agenda 4?


Ground iko hivi

You can tell us all you want to tell us about how bad BBI is...That's ok

Question is, will Ruto and his gang of 100k per funeral vote for or against?

I want you to tell me that Moses Kuria and his stupid ideas about giving milk farmers 40 bob by force shall work.

I'll this again.

The Tsunami was simple, change the systems.

Ruto doesn't have anymore money to run a full blown campaign. Moses Kuria, Mr. Ruto shall dump you in February, take that to the bank.

Chess and checkers are two different games and Itumbi and co play checkers.

Sad

But True.
Thieves are not good people. Tumeelewana?
Amores
#127 Posted : Saturday, November 30, 2019 5:35:28 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 11/25/2011
Posts: 2,062
Location: Nrb
One of my favorite critique of BBI nonsense is the twitter thread by

Prof. Alfred Omenya
@aomenya

I dont know how to post a tweet :) but those who are interested can check him ou ton twira
I am happy
alma1
#128 Posted : Saturday, November 30, 2019 10:04:55 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/19/2015
Posts: 2,560
Location: hapo
Amores wrote:
One of my favorite critique of BBI nonsense is the twitter thread by

Prof. Alfred Omenya
@aomenya

I dont know how to post a tweet :) but those who are interested can check him ou ton twira


Amores.

What do you want?

Looto>


Thieves are not good people. Tumeelewana?
Amores
#129 Posted : Sunday, December 01, 2019 6:34:38 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 11/25/2011
Posts: 2,062
Location: Nrb
alma1 wrote:
Amores wrote:
One of my favorite critique of BBI nonsense is the twitter thread by

Prof. Alfred Omenya
@aomenya

I dont know how to post a tweet :) but those who are interested can check him ou ton twira


Amores.

What do you want?

Looto>




Aki Alma, umelewa na hatred for Ruto. Let's put Ruto aside for moment because the twitter feed i referred to has nothing to do with Ruto.
Tell me wewe uko wapi na hii BBI.

What do I want? I want bold leaders and Kenyans to call it the BS it is. The document took almost a year to be produced. What do I want ?I want ODM and Uhuru ? to stop calling for a referendum and if we must, say for example for creation of PM position,we need to combine it with the 2022 vote.

I have read it, the annexe ( even if @FRM - your buddy in the condescending camp)thinks because he has not read it, no one else has.

I like the idea of health commission and the 7% tax holiday for startups. That's all. So ni nini tunapeleka kwa referundum ?



I am happy
Ngalaka
#130 Posted : Sunday, December 01, 2019 11:09:29 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 10/29/2008
Posts: 1,535
There may be little to celebrate in the whole BBI affair, though at least it helped sedate and mollify the excitable Raila brigade - giving them a feel-good preoccupation albeit of little tangible value.

The move helped both Uhuru and Raila.

- For Uhuru; - to focus on the business of running Govt without the unnecessary if incessant street battles.

- For Raila; - to get an escape route or excuse to call off the brigade which had already suffered heavily during the 'resist' period. He can always claim that he brought them sirkal - what with all the frequency of trips to follow up on Kisumu port etc.

Now the BBI fortunes or lack thereof going forward;

For starters there are many who embrace the animal chiefly because it seems to put Ruto under check.

The converse is true too..

I suffer no illusions that Mt Kenya region will defy what Uhuru tells them to do.

Raila's word in Nyanza is law.

Ukambani political elite in both major camps are not only falling over themselves to ensure that they catch Uhuru's eye, but competing between themselves over which side is more loyal!


I am persuaded that in the final analysis,whatever route and form these matters might take, if Uhuru and Raila stick together they will dictate the outcome of what Constitutional changes we will end up with if any, as well as the ultimate prize - 2022 election outcome.

Ruto knows these truths all too well.
His only hope must be that, Uhuru & Raila fall out eventually..

Isuni yilu yi maa me muyo - ni Mbisuu
kaka2za
#131 Posted : Sunday, December 01, 2019 11:35:05 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/3/2008
Posts: 3,642
Location: Gwitu
I have gone through the report and honestly don't understand what will require a referendum. What will be the referendum question?
tycho
#132 Posted : Sunday, December 01, 2019 5:46:57 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,580
Location: Nairobi
kaka2za wrote:
I have gone through the report and honestly don't understand what will require a referendum. What will be the referendum question?


Print a version of the constitution with all the necessary changes and name it 'version B'. Current constitution is then named 'version A'.

Referendum question: version A or B?

'Vote B; vote for bridges, vote for integrity. Alma yuko ndani, je wewe?'
kaka2za
#133 Posted : Monday, December 02, 2019 10:39:36 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/3/2008
Posts: 3,642
Location: Gwitu
tycho wrote:
kaka2za wrote:
I have gone through the report and honestly don't understand what will require a referendum. What will be the referendum question?


Print a version of the constitution with all the necessary changes and name it 'version B'. Current constitution is then named 'version A'.

Referendum question: version A or B?

'Vote B; vote for bridges, vote for integrity. Alma yuko ndani, je wewe?'


The constitution states clearly states the changes that would require a referendum. None of the recommendations of the BBI fit in that category.
Or maybe some people want a referendum just to put the country in election mode and 'test' the waters albeit at a huge cost.
kayhara
#134 Posted : Monday, December 02, 2019 10:57:43 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 5/5/2011
Posts: 1,034
The document has a lot of hubris, You cannot registrate to change people's mentality, I don't think tax breaks are the way to go, reducing taxes across the board would be a better way, The health commision creation does not need a referendum, an act of parliament will do, corruption fight will fail if judiciary budget gets cut, the PM position and his nomination makes no sense, why do we still need CDF can mps stick to registration, same as mcas stick to county laws, anyway I don't support this thing.
To Each His Own
murchr
#135 Posted : Monday, December 02, 2019 5:32:45 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/26/2012
Posts: 15,010
kayhara wrote:
The document has a lot of hubris, You cannot registrate to change people's mentality, I don't think tax breaks are the way to go, reducing taxes across the board would be a better way, The health commision creation does not need a referendum, an act of parliament will do, corruption fight will fail if judiciary budget gets cut, the PM position and his nomination makes no sense, why do we still need CDF can mps stick to registration, same as mcas stick to county laws, anyway I don't support this thing.


You mean LEGISLATE ; LEGISLATION Yes i totally agree.

"There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
.
kaka2za
#136 Posted : Monday, December 02, 2019 9:05:29 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/3/2008
Posts: 3,642
Location: Gwitu
murchr wrote:
kayhara wrote:
The document has a lot of hubris, You cannot registrate to change people's mentality, I don't think tax breaks are the way to go, reducing taxes across the board would be a better way, The health commision creation does not need a referendum, an act of parliament will do, corruption fight will fail if judiciary budget gets cut, the PM position and his nomination makes no sense, why do we still need CDF can mps stick to registration, same as mcas stick to county laws, anyway I don't support this thing.


You mean LEGISLATE ; LEGISLATION Yes i totally agree.



L and r mix up is very common in the world Drool
List of worst offenders include Japanese, Chinese, Kyuks,Baganda,Chaaga,Bahimas and a number of Southern African Bantu speakers
tycho
#137 Posted : Tuesday, December 03, 2019 7:57:45 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,580
Location: Nairobi
How we manage discourse is also a matter for concern. This is because language determines our thinking. For example the title to this post may limit our thinking in ways that may preclude any constructive engagement.

An application of this idea is by Deborah Tannen in her 'argument society':

[quote]THE ARGUMENT CULTURE

Balance. Debate. Listening to both sides. Who could question these noble American traditions? Yet today, these principles have been distorted. Without thinking, we have plunged headfirst into what I call the "argument culture."
The argument culture urges us to approach the world, and the people in it, in an adversarial frame of mind. It rests on the as¬sumption that opposition is the best way to get anything done: The best way to discuss an idea is to set up a debate; the best way to cover news is to find spokespeople who express the most ex¬treme, polarized views and present them as "both sides"; the best way to settle disputes is litigation that pits one party against the other; the best way to begin an essay is to attack someone; and the best way to show you're really thinking is to criticize.
/quote]

This leads us to the question of how again people from different persuasions can think together constructively, and how we can change our patterns of discourse.
Tokyo
#138 Posted : Tuesday, December 03, 2019 10:04:34 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 10/9/2006
Posts: 1,428
If the gutter is to be trusted,Uhuru and Raila compromise candidate Matiangi v/s Ruto. It would be an epic battle.
work to prosper
Tokyo
#139 Posted : Tuesday, December 03, 2019 12:39:41 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 10/9/2006
Posts: 1,428
Can somebody educate me on reasons the current constitution needs to be trashed/ updated?
work to prosper
Angelica _ann
#140 Posted : Tuesday, December 03, 2019 1:13:40 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/7/2012
Posts: 10,995
Tokyo wrote:
If the gutter is to be trusted,Uhuru and Raila compromise candidate Matiangi v/s Ruto. It would be an epic battle.


Campaign money-wise, Ruto has an upper hand/plus already level of penetration.
In the business world, everyone is paid in two coins - cash and experience. Take the experience first; the cash will come later - H Geneen
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