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Daniel Toroitich arap Moi
madhaquer
#81 Posted : Thursday, February 13, 2020 9:24:59 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 11/10/2010
Posts: 254
Location: Nairobi
Iganamagana wrote:
[quote=sqft]He grabbed public and private land to put up schools using public funds and staffed the schools with govt teachers then later claimed the schools were private. eg Kabarak, Sacho, sunshine etc. The schools should be returned to the tax payer.

http://kenyalaw.org/caselaw/cases/view/91707/

http://kenyalaw.org/caselaw/cases/view/105710[/quote]

Sacho specifically should be returned to the public. It has always been public. The family should also be surcharged for the public resources used on Kabarak schools.


I hope you don't expect this to happen during the reign of his protegee.

murchr
#82 Posted : Friday, February 14, 2020 7:23:01 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/26/2012
Posts: 15,769
Thank goodness for the rains and Sonko's landscaping, the city was presentable.

As for those crying over spilt milk, what have you gained so far?
"There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
.
radiomast
#83 Posted : Friday, February 14, 2020 5:59:32 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 2/15/2018
Posts: 404
murchr wrote:
Thank goodness for the rains and Sonko's landscaping, the city was presentable.

As for those crying over spilt milk, what have you gained so far?



What spilt milk are you talking about?

One of the reason why Kenya is a sheet-hole is because we never learn from history and thus we are doomed to keep making the same mistakes.

They say experience is the best teacher but Kenyans seem incapable of learning from experience even when it punches them right in the face.

This is because we have a goofy habit of whitewashing history. When Jomo Kenyatta died, all his misdeeds such as murdering political opponents, grabbing land and encouraging corruption were whitewashed and Kenyans cried as if a benevolent King had died.

Now here we are 57 years after independence, and we are witnessing the fruits or corruption, landgrabbing, murder and yet we still havent learned that our problems have been due to bad leadership.
murchr
#84 Posted : Friday, February 14, 2020 9:03:02 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/26/2012
Posts: 15,769
radiomast wrote:
murchr wrote:
Thank goodness for the rains and Sonko's landscaping, the city was presentable.

As for those crying over spilt milk, what have you gained so far?



What spilt milk are you talking about?

One of the reason why Kenya is a sheet-hole is because we never learn from history and thus we are doomed to keep making the same mistakes.

They say experience is the best teacher but Kenyans seem incapable of learning from experience even when it punches them right in the face.

This is because we have a goofy habit of whitewashing history. When Jomo Kenyatta died, all his misdeeds such as murdering political opponents, grabbing land and encouraging corruption were whitewashed and Kenyans cried as if a benevolent King had died.

Now here we are 57 years after independence, and we are witnessing the fruits or corruption, landgrabbing, murder and yet we still havent learned that our problems have been due to bad leadership.



You don't solve problems by lamenting but by using that energy to make the right decisions. Vote for the right people, advocate for the right laws. Moi will mot make any more new laws or wake up to vote, complaining about Moi or Kenyatta is
as useless as complaining about mubeberu.
"There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
.
radiomast
#85 Posted : Friday, February 14, 2020 10:19:04 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 2/15/2018
Posts: 404
murchr wrote:



You don't solve problems by lamenting but by using that energy to make the right decisions. Vote for the right people, advocate for the right laws. Moi will mot make any more new laws or wake up to vote, complaining about Moi or Kenyatta is
as useless as complaining about mubeberu.


So according to you we should never speak about the past?

So if it were up to you, history would be banned?

Its people like you that Kenya is a sheet-hole. There is an important saying that goes "Those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it"

Why do you think Jews always remind people about the holocaust? There is a holocaust memorial or museum in every major European and North American city because Jews don't want people to ever forget the holocaust lest it is repeated.

But I guess if you met a Jew, you would tell them to stop crying over spilt milk.

The South Africans had a truth and reconciliation session when apartheid ended. But you would have told them to move on and forget what happened in apartheid.

Rwanda also had a truth commission to discuss the 1994 genocide and prevent it from happening again. But you would have told them to stop lamenting.

Part of voting for the right people is to learn from past mistakes.


And you will never catch me complaining about Mbeberu. What our 4 presidents have done to Kenyans is much worse than anything Mbeberu did. In fact Muzungu did more for Kenya than these people.
murchr
#86 Posted : Friday, February 14, 2020 10:26:25 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/26/2012
Posts: 15,769
radiomast wrote:
murchr wrote:



You don't solve problems by lamenting but by using that energy to make the right decisions. Vote for the right people, advocate for the right laws. Moi will mot make any more new laws or wake up to vote, complaining about Moi or Kenyatta is
as useless as complaining about mubeberu.


So according to you we should never speak about the past?

So if it were up to you, history would be banned?

Its people like you that Kenya is a sheet-hole. There is an important saying that goes "Those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it"

Part of voting for the right people is to learn from past mistakes.


And you will never catch me complaining about Mbeberu. What our 4 presidents have done to Kenyans is much worse than anything Mbeberu did. In fact Muzungu did more for Kenya than these people.



We should learn from the past and move on to build a better future. Dwelling on the past is and will never be of any importance.

If your problems were caused by Moi and you still languishing on those problems then you are the problem life happened and its happening. Do you think SK Macharia dwelt on the disappointments he got in the Moi govt? Heck the guy doesn't even like Uhuru but he doesn't dwell on it. Sasa after yapping all day and night what changed?
"There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
.
Lolest!
#87 Posted : Saturday, February 15, 2020 7:44:24 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/18/2011
Posts: 12,047
Location: Kianjokoma
Wewe murchr wacha hizo

Those who were touched by Moi have had their say. They have praised Moi and you haven't accused them of dwelling in the past. So we risk ending up with one sided history of who Moi was. A humble, kind churchman who had bad people in govt who did all the bad things that happened without him knowing.

Let those who feel Moi was a disaster say so too. We need the correct history so that some young 20 yr old who has no idea what happened can get a full picture not these whitewashed stories by media and beneficiaries.

Talking about media,I was happy with yesterday's Daily Nation recollection of the many who were tortured, detained, brutalized and jailed by Moi

Laughing out loudly smile Applause d'oh! Sad Drool Liar Shame on you Pray
AlphDoti
#88 Posted : Saturday, February 15, 2020 12:45:35 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/20/2008
Posts: 6,247
Location: Kenya
Lolest! wrote:
Wewe murchr wacha hizo

Those who were touched by Moi have had their say. They have praised Moi and you haven't accused them of dwelling in the past. So we risk ending up with one sided history of who Moi was. A humble, kind churchman who had bad people in govt who did all the bad things that happened without him knowing.

Let those who feel Moi was a disaster say so too. We need the correct history so that some young 20 yr old who has no idea what happened can get a full picture not these whitewashed stories by media and beneficiaries.

Talking about media,I was happy with yesterday's Daily Nation recollection of the many who were tortured, detained, brutalized and jailed by Moi

Daily Nation seem to be picking up propaganda style lately...
[FACEBOOK]https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=3216537251708123&id=244554088906469[/FACEBOOK]
wukan
#89 Posted : Saturday, February 15, 2020 12:49:00 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 11/13/2015
Posts: 1,452
murchr wrote:
radiomast wrote:
murchr wrote:



You don't solve problems by lamenting but by using that energy to make the right decisions. Vote for the right people, advocate for the right laws. Moi will mot make any more new laws or wake up to vote, complaining about Moi or Kenyatta is
as useless as complaining about mubeberu.


So according to you we should never speak about the past?

So if it were up to you, history would be banned?

Its people like you that Kenya is a sheet-hole. There is an important saying that goes "Those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it"

Part of voting for the right people is to learn from past mistakes.


And you will never catch me complaining about Mbeberu. What our 4 presidents have done to Kenyans is much worse than anything Mbeberu did. In fact Muzungu did more for Kenya than these people.



We should learn from the past and move on to build a better future. Dwelling on the past is and will never be of any importance.

If your problems were caused by Moi and you still languishing on those problems then you are the problem life happened and its happening. Do you think SK Macharia dwelt on the disappointments he got in the Moi govt? Heck the guy doesn't even like Uhuru but he doesn't dwell on it. Sasa after yapping all day and night what changed?


Thanks murchrApplause. Let's close this thread and focus on how hoodlums like Echesa made it all the way to cabinet. The past cannot be undone.
Lolest!
#90 Posted : Sunday, February 16, 2020 1:25:47 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/18/2011
Posts: 12,047
Location: Kianjokoma
Moi legacy debates will not end soon.

I'm reading the Sunday Nation & it has a testimony from an ex Kanu official from Kirinyaga. He mourns Moi as his friend and generous leader and an ANGEL.

Same page is the 30 years ago section. Ouko's body was discovered exactly 30 years ago today.
Laughing out loudly smile Applause d'oh! Sad Drool Liar Shame on you Pray
radiomast
#91 Posted : Tuesday, February 18, 2020 8:31:50 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 2/15/2018
Posts: 404
murchr wrote:


We should learn from the past and move on to build a better future. Dwelling on the past is and will never be of any importance.

If your problems were caused by Moi and you still languishing on those problems then you are the problem life happened and its happening. Do you think SK Macharia dwelt on the disappointments he got in the Moi govt? Heck the guy doesn't even like Uhuru but he doesn't dwell on it. Sasa after yapping all day and night what changed?


Isn't it funny how people always choose one positive example while ignoring all the other scenarios that went badly?

There were many people who died at the hands of Moi's goons. Lets take Tito Adungosi for example. A promising Architecture student who was jailed after the 1982 coup because he was SONU leader. He died mysteriously in custody. His family was not even informed. Months later they went to pick up his body and by then he was not even recognizable.

If you met his mother, would you tell her to stop crying over spilt milk ? Would you ask her to move on like SK Macharia?

She invested her life savings educating Tito, only for Moi's thugs to torture and kill him. Then she was traumatized by not even getting a chance to give Tito a decent burial. But murchr doesn't care. He will tel that woman to accept and move on.

And I am not dwelling on the past. I am just sick of this rubbish Kenyan culture of heaping praise on our leaders and ignoring their misdeeds. It is one of the reasons we are a sheet-hole. We keep electing poor leaders because we whitewash the past.

When we mourn people we must tell the truth
aemathenge
#92 Posted : Sunday, April 12, 2020 10:48:54 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/18/2008
Posts: 3,318
Location: Kerugoya
... and because we did not learn from The Error, we continue languishing in The Error...

Quote:
Antics Of The History

Over lunch at the Nairobi Boulevard Hotel, Chesire gave me background to that story.

He told me that when Moi was vice-president and Biwott his personal assistant (PA), the latter used to complain aloud that people in Mount Kenya region, and those in Nandi, Kericho, and Uasin Gishu districts, had no respect for the VP (allegedly) because they had money.

“Rich people don’t obey and have no regard for authority,” Biwott used to complain.

Chesire recalled one evening at Eldoret Sirikwa Hotel when Biwott unleashed in a torrent of anger.

“You people have no respect for us because you have money and we don’t!

Wait until we get to power and we make the donkey catch up with the horse!”

He told me that was the “philosophy” behind the killing of the KFA, a fate that would soon befall other institutions and individual enterprises where there was money that the “system” — rather the “boss” — didn’t control.

Henceforth, it was the “boss” — also called HEDAM — who would decide which Kenyan should have money in the pocket and how much — and the “boss” would take it away when he felt like it!

For that to happen, not just KFA but any other enabler institution that put money in farmers’ pockets, was hauled to the guillotine.

That included, among others,
the Kenya Co-operative Creameries (KCC),
Kenya Planters Co-operative Union (KPCU),
Kenya Tea Development Authority (KTDA),
Pyrethrum Board,
Cotton Board,
Agricultural Finance Corporation (AFC),
Agricultural Development Corporation (ADC),
all sugar factories,
and the Pan-African Paper Mills.

Then followed the turn for individual enterprises to be sabotaged into bankruptcy.

Among the most remembered cases were indigenous-owned banks and financial institutions forced to close shop in the mid-1980s: Madhupaper International, fronted by media mogul S.K. Macharia, and an indigenous giant conglomerate called JK Kalinga Industries.

At about that time, five indigenous entrepreneurs' bid to purchase the local franchise of the US tyre-manufacturer Firestone was sabotaged by the “system” at the last minute and the business bought by the “big man” and his associates.

Repeating The Antics Of The History

Jubilee Alliance’s ‘Tuko Pamoja’ sloganeering and the white-shirts/red-ties PR razzmatazz, is all well known.

What is not known is how the two camps that could not see eye-to-eye in 2007 suddenly came together in 2012.

Behind the scenes was deceit, brinkmanship and, yes, blackmail.

SUCCESSION WAR

It is a bizarre, untold story best understood when you get to know how the Jubilee “brothers” financed the blitzkrieg that had the coalition win 2013 election — against all odds.

A huge chunk of the campaign war chest came from one faction in the coalition.

A little also came from notorious wheeler-dealers.

The deal, as negotiated, was that the faction with bigger financial muscle — thanks to old family money — would get the “big seat” but the other faction would be given Cabinet portfolios where there is “meat” — not just “bones” — so that they, too, would have something of their “own” come 2017 and beyond.

That was the condition put for the “donkey” in Jubilee to agree to travel same road with the “horse”.

It is also where the 10/10 deal, disowned by Jubilee vice-chairman David Murathe, was sealed. Apparently, he had dashed out to the washrooms when that happened!


source link: https://www.nation.co.ke...21352-lhg9lxz/index.html
Queen
#93 Posted : Monday, April 13, 2020 3:47:07 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 11/21/2018
Posts: 397
Location: Britain
[quote=aemathenge]... and because we did not learn from The Error, we continue languishing in The Error...

Quote:
Antics Of The History

Over lunch at the Nairobi Boulevard Hotel, Chesire gave me background to that story.

He told me that when Moi was vice-president and Biwott his personal assistant (PA), the latter used to complain aloud that people in Mount Kenya region, and those in Nandi, Kericho, and Uasin Gishu districts, had no respect for the VP (allegedly) because they had money.

“Rich people don’t obey and have no regard for authority,” Biwott used to complain.

Chesire recalled one evening at Eldoret Sirikwa Hotel when Biwott unleashed in a torrent of anger.

“You people have no respect for us because you have money and we don’t!

Wait until we get to power and we make the donkey catch up with the horse!”

He told me that was the “philosophy” behind the killing of the KFA, a fate that would soon befall other institutions and individual enterprises where there was money that the “system” — rather the “boss” — didn’t control.

Henceforth, it was the “boss” — also called HEDAM — who would decide which Kenyan should have money in the pocket and how much — and the “boss” would take it away when he felt like it!

For that to happen, not just KFA but any other enabler institution that put money in farmers’ pockets, was hauled to the guillotine.

That included, among others,
the Kenya Co-operative Creameries (KCC),
Kenya Planters Co-operative Union (KPCU),
Kenya Tea Development Authority (KTDA),
Pyrethrum Board,
Cotton Board,
Agricultural Finance Corporation (AFC),
Agricultural Development Corporation (ADC),
all sugar factories,
and the Pan-African Paper Mills.

Then followed the turn for individual enterprises to be sabotaged into bankruptcy.

Among the most remembered cases were indigenous-owned banks and financial institutions forced to close shop in the mid-1980s: Madhupaper International, fronted by media mogul S.K. Macharia, and an indigenous giant conglomerate called JK Kalinga Industries.

At about that time, five indigenous entrepreneurs' bid to purchase the local franchise of the US tyre-manufacturer Firestone was sabotaged by the “system” at the last minute and the business bought by the “big man” and his associates.

Repeating The Antics Of The History

Jubilee Alliance’s ‘Tuko Pamoja’ sloganeering and the white-shirts/red-ties PR razzmatazz, is all well known.

What is not known is how the two camps that could not see eye-to-eye in 2007 suddenly came together in 2012.

Behind the scenes was deceit, brinkmanship and, yes, blackmail.

SUCCESSION WAR

It is a bizarre, untold story best understood when you get to know how the Jubilee “brothers” financed the blitzkrieg that had the coalition win 2013 election — against all odds.

A huge chunk of the campaign war chest came from one faction in the coalition.

A little also came from notorious wheeler-dealers.

The deal, as negotiated, was that the faction with bigger financial muscle — thanks to old family money — would get the “big seat” but the other faction would be given Cabinet portfolios where there is “meat” — not just “bones” — so that they, too, would have something of their “own” come 2017 and beyond.

That was the condition put for the “donkey” in Jubilee to agree to travel same road with the “horse”.

It is also where the 10/10 deal, disowned by Jubilee vice-chairman David Murathe, was sealed. Apparently, he had dashed out to the washrooms when that happened!


source link: https://www.nation.co.ke...1352-lhg9lxz/index.html[/quote]

Reading that article is more depressing than reading Covid-19 news.Who will save Kenya?
radiomast
#94 Posted : Wednesday, April 15, 2020 4:32:59 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 2/15/2018
Posts: 404
Queen wrote:



Reading that article is more depressing than reading Covid-19 news.Who will save Kenya?


The people will save the country if they become issue oriented instead of tribe oriented. Educated people should not allow leaders to keep misleading them into tribal voting.
aemathenge
#95 Posted : Wednesday, April 15, 2020 6:47:18 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/18/2008
Posts: 3,318
Location: Kerugoya
radiomast wrote:
Queen wrote:



Reading that article is more depressing than reading Covid-19 news.Who will save Kenya?


The people will save the country if they become issue oriented instead of tribe oriented. Educated people should not allow leaders to keep misleading them into tribal voting.


This "Wanjinga Sisi" issue is deeper than "Tribe".

In my own county, Martha Versus Waiguru brought this out clearly.

Something much deeper is at play than "mere" tribe.
Lolest!
#96 Posted : Thursday, April 16, 2020 8:35:09 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/18/2011
Posts: 12,047
Location: Kianjokoma
aemathenge wrote:
radiomast wrote:
Queen wrote:



Reading that article is more depressing than reading Covid-19 news.Who will save Kenya?


The people will save the country if they become issue oriented instead of tribe oriented. Educated people should not allow leaders to keep misleading them into tribal voting.


This "Wanjinga Sisi" issue is deeper than "Tribe".

In my own county, Martha Versus Waiguru brought this out clearly.

Something much deeper is at play than "mere" tribe.

Well said.
Laughing out loudly smile Applause d'oh! Sad Drool Liar Shame on you Pray
mpobiz
#97 Posted : Thursday, April 16, 2020 9:50:36 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 8/10/2010
Posts: 2,097
Lolest! wrote:
aemathenge wrote:
radiomast wrote:
Queen wrote:



Reading that article is more depressing than reading Covid-19 news.Who will save Kenya?


The people will save the country if they become issue oriented instead of tribe oriented. Educated people should not allow leaders to keep misleading them into tribal voting.


This "Wanjinga Sisi" issue is deeper than "Tribe".

In my own county, Martha Versus Waiguru brought this out clearly.

Something much deeper is at play than "mere" tribe.

Well said.


Kurogwo
Politics is just things to keep the people divided and foolish and put your trust in men and none of them can do nothing for you...
radiomast
#98 Posted : Thursday, April 16, 2020 11:15:19 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 2/15/2018
Posts: 404
aemathenge wrote:
radiomast wrote:
Queen wrote:



Reading that article is more depressing than reading Covid-19 news.Who will save Kenya?


The people will save the country if they become issue oriented instead of tribe oriented. Educated people should not allow leaders to keep misleading them into tribal voting.


This "Wanjinga Sisi" issue is deeper than "Tribe".

In my own county, Martha Versus Waiguru brought this out clearly.

Something much deeper is at play than "mere" tribe.


I agree with you that there are many factors one of which is that our culture is rotten. Senior govt officials who haven't enriched themselves are despised by many people.

I remember when Igathe resigned in 2018. He did the right thing. But people went on TV and criticized him eti politically he had done the wrong thing. Others online said he should have just taken the money. We have a rotten culture.
radiomast
#99 Posted : Friday, April 17, 2020 6:57:36 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 2/15/2018
Posts: 404
In 2014, the Prime Minister of South Korea resigned due to his governments slow response to the ferry disaster. This culture of accountability might explain why South Korea and Kenya had the same GDP per capita in the early 1960s and now South Korea's GDP per capita is 20 times Kenya's.

Culture of Accountability vs Culture of impunity. Thats why Kenya is stuck in first gear since 1963.
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