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KenyaRe FY19 - FY23 (Both Inclusive)
Ericsson
#561 Posted : Monday, October 19, 2020 10:17:54 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/4/2009
Posts: 9,137
Location: NAIROBI
VituVingiSana wrote:
Ericsson wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
Ericsson wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
Ericsson wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
Ericsson wrote:
Kenya Reinsurance has put a tender for sale of Reinsurance Plaza Kisumu.
Reserve price Ksh.1 billion
Applause Applause Applause Sell and pay a dividend Applause Are there buyers at that price in this market?


The rich Indians from Kisumu or government though the process may take time to conclude.

Part of the proceeds may also be used to put up their new commercial building (twin towers) in Upper Hill
There are many rich Luos who can buy it. Applause

Using the proceeds to build a new commercial building in Upper Hill, in the near future, would be STUPID and CRIMINAL. Shame on you

The proceeds should be invested in the stock market if the prices remain low. The best is to pay out a dividend. Next best is a share buyback.


I said part of the proceeds.

Kenya Re will soon move it's head offices out of Reinsurance plaza since demand for office space by Judiciary is growing.

Several properties have been disposed off in the past and no special dividend given out,so I don't expect a change with this one.

Share buyback means a company has run out of ideas on how to invest it's money.

In your opinion, has Apple run out of ideas?

It's better they even use the money to make an acquisition/buy a stake in a reinsurance company in Africa that would yield returns.

If the shares they buy are able to give a cash return in terms of dividends equal to the rent they are getting from the property,then that would be considered a good bet.

Using any part of the proceeds for a new office building in Upper Hill (in the near future) is STUPID and CRIMINAL.

There is 18,000sf of vacant space in Kenya Re Towers. There are vacancies in Anniversary Towers too. Or they can rent from any of the MANY buildings in Upper Hill with large vacancies while reinvesting the money in higher yielding investments.

Agreed. Kenya Re is no ScanGroup re: dividends

Some firms, even with challenges, give 3-8% Dividend Yields with potential for substantial growth in future dividends and capital gains. Much better than offices in the near future.

The cost of the new building was estimated at 6bn which means the other 5bn+ would be pulled from high-yielding (default-free, no management risk) T-Bonds.

Britam Tower. Largely vacant.
UAP Tower. Huge vacancies.
Prism.
I&M Tower. Corporate offices moving to Parklands.

There are many others.



Apple did a share split of 4 for every 1 on 28 August 2020.

There are advantages in having your head offices in the building you own.
I am yet to see a company that owns a commercial building,rents it out then decided to be a tenant in a building owned by a different entity/individual.

Apple did a share split of 4 for every 1 on 28 August 2020
So? Apple has a share buyback policy since 2012. Address the issue re: share buybacks.


Is the current outstanding issued shares Apple has in October 2020 less than what it had before.
If no then the sharebacks Apple is doing is just juggling money here and there.
Why do a share buy back then do a share split or bonus issue,it beats the purpose.
Wealth is built through a relatively simple equation
Wealth=Income + Investments - Lifestyle
Ericsson
#562 Posted : Monday, October 19, 2020 10:22:35 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/4/2009
Posts: 9,137
Location: NAIROBI
VituVingiSana wrote:
In 2016, for example, Beer maker East African Breweries sold its Ruaraka-based headquarters to Tembo Sacco, a 2,400-member savings and credit cooperative society made up of its current and former staff, in a Sh675 million lease-back deal.

Longhorn Publishers is also seeking to sell its Sh500 million headquarters on Funzi Road in Nairobi’s Industrial Area. According to the company, the sale is informed by the need to increase investments in more high-return publishing fields.


Read my statement again.
"Company that owns an office commercial building and rents/leases out someone's else as its Hq.
The examples you have given are companies that sold the only commercial office building they owned and leased it,meaning they own no other commercial office building."



Standard chartered bank kenya sold Stanbank house in Moi Avenue and build Standard Chartered building in Chiromo.

ICEALION sold ICEALION towers along Kenyatta Avenue and build Riverside Park where their new head office is.

Barclays bank Kenya sold Bank house along Moi Avenue and then later on acquired Westend Towers in Westlands/along Waiyaki way.

ICDCI now Centum sold Kimathi house and Consulate Chambers then built their head office in Two Rivers
Wealth is built through a relatively simple equation
Wealth=Income + Investments - Lifestyle
VituVingiSana
#563 Posted : Monday, October 19, 2020 11:23:13 AM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 17,328
Location: Nairobi
Ericsson wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
Ericsson wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
Ericsson wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
Ericsson wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
Ericsson wrote:
Kenya Reinsurance has put a tender for sale of Reinsurance Plaza Kisumu.
Reserve price Ksh.1 billion
Applause Applause Applause Sell and pay a dividend Applause Are there buyers at that price in this market?


The rich Indians from Kisumu or government though the process may take time to conclude.

Part of the proceeds may also be used to put up their new commercial building (twin towers) in Upper Hill
There are many rich Luos who can buy it. Applause

Using the proceeds to build a new commercial building in Upper Hill, in the near future, would be STUPID and CRIMINAL. Shame on you

The proceeds should be invested in the stock market if the prices remain low. The best is to pay out a dividend. Next best is a share buyback.


I said part of the proceeds.

Kenya Re will soon move it's head offices out of Reinsurance plaza since demand for office space by Judiciary is growing.

Several properties have been disposed off in the past and no special dividend given out,so I don't expect a change with this one.

Share buyback means a company has run out of ideas on how to invest it's money.

In your opinion, has Apple run out of ideas?

It's better they even use the money to make an acquisition/buy a stake in a reinsurance company in Africa that would yield returns.

If the shares they buy are able to give a cash return in terms of dividends equal to the rent they are getting from the property,then that would be considered a good bet.

Using any part of the proceeds for a new office building in Upper Hill (in the near future) is STUPID and CRIMINAL.

There is 18,000sf of vacant space in Kenya Re Towers. There are vacancies in Anniversary Towers too. Or they can rent from any of the MANY buildings in Upper Hill with large vacancies while reinvesting the money in higher yielding investments.

Agreed. Kenya Re is no ScanGroup re: dividends

Some firms, even with challenges, give 3-8% Dividend Yields with potential for substantial growth in future dividends and capital gains. Much better than offices in the near future.

The cost of the new building was estimated at 6bn which means the other 5bn+ would be pulled from high-yielding (default-free, no management risk) T-Bonds.

Britam Tower. Largely vacant.
UAP Tower. Huge vacancies.
Prism.
I&M Tower. Corporate offices moving to Parklands.

There are many others.



Apple did a share split of 4 for every 1 on 28 August 2020.

There are advantages in having your head offices in the building you own.
I am yet to see a company that owns a commercial building,rents it out then decided to be a tenant in a building owned by a different entity/individual.

Apple did a share split of 4 for every 1 on 28 August 2020
So? Apple has a share buyback policy since 2012. Address the issue re: share buybacks.


Is the current outstanding issued shares Apple has in October 2020 less than what it had before.
If no then the sharebacks Apple is doing is just juggling money here and there.
Why do a share buy back then do a share split or bonus issue,it beats the purpose.
A share buy back may have other reasons.

Another firm that does share buybacks is Berkshire Hathaway. In your opinion, has Warren Buffett also run out of ideas?
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
VituVingiSana
#564 Posted : Monday, October 19, 2020 11:25:31 AM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 17,328
Location: Nairobi
Ericsson wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
In 2016, for example, Beer maker East African Breweries sold its Ruaraka-based headquarters to Tembo Sacco, a 2,400-member savings and credit cooperative society made up of its current and former staff, in a Sh675 million lease-back deal.

Longhorn Publishers is also seeking to sell its Sh500 million headquarters on Funzi Road in Nairobi’s Industrial Area. According to the company, the sale is informed by the need to increase investments in more high-return publishing fields.


Read my statement again.
"Company that owns an office commercial building and rents/leases out someone's else as its Hq.
The examples you have given are companies that sold the only commercial office building they owned and leased it,meaning they own no other commercial office building."



Standard chartered bank kenya sold Stanbank house in Moi Avenue and build Standard Chartered building in Chiromo.

ICEALION sold ICEALION towers along Kenyatta Avenue and build Riverside Park where their new head office is.

Barclays bank Kenya sold Bank house along Moi Avenue and then later on acquired Westend Towers in Westlands/along Waiyaki way.

ICDCI now Centum sold Kimathi house and Consulate Chambers then built their head office in Two Rivers

Let's cut this polemic short.
In your opinion, does it make sense for Kenya Re to build another office building in the near future in Upper Hill?

BTW, Kenya Re has 18,000sf vacant in Kenya Re Towers (Upper Hill).
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
Ericsson
#565 Posted : Monday, October 19, 2020 12:39:01 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/4/2009
Posts: 9,137
Location: NAIROBI
VituVingiSana wrote:
Ericsson wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
In 2016, for example, Beer maker East African Breweries sold its Ruaraka-based headquarters to Tembo Sacco, a 2,400-member savings and credit cooperative society made up of its current and former staff, in a Sh675 million lease-back deal.

Longhorn Publishers is also seeking to sell its Sh500 million headquarters on Funzi Road in Nairobi’s Industrial Area. According to the company, the sale is informed by the need to increase investments in more high-return publishing fields.


Read my statement again.
"Company that owns an office commercial building and rents/leases out someone's else as its Hq.
The examples you have given are companies that sold the only commercial office building they owned and leased it,meaning they own no other commercial office building."



Standard chartered bank kenya sold Stanbank house in Moi Avenue and build Standard Chartered building in Chiromo.

ICEALION sold ICEALION towers along Kenyatta Avenue and build Riverside Park where their new head office is.

Barclays bank Kenya sold Bank house along Moi Avenue and then later on acquired Westend Towers in Westlands/along Waiyaki way.

ICDCI now Centum sold Kimathi house and Consulate Chambers then built their head office in Two Rivers

Let's cut this polemic short.
In your opinion, does it make sense for Kenya Re to build another office building in the near future in Upper Hill?

BTW, Kenya Re has 18,000sf vacant in Kenya Re Towers (Upper Hill).



Yes it does,government and its agencies are expanding towards Upper Hill,reason why you have seen roads there been dualised.
Old Mutual UAP towers CBK has taken 20%+ of the Office Space through KDIC and Financial Reporting Center.
SASRA is also a tenant there having taken 2 floors.

The 18,000 sqf vacant in Kenya Re towers is vacant as a result of Lafarge Bamburi Cement moving its head offices to an industrial building they own in Industrial Area as a cost cutting/survival measure.The change happened in Q2 of this year.
That space will be taken up probably by ODPP of Noordin Haji who took over the whole of Union Office owned by Old Mutual UAP.They have already fully occupied it and will need additional space.
KRA is also expanding towards that side,their pension bought Corporate Office Suite along Elgon road,let it out to them and it's already fully.
Wealth is built through a relatively simple equation
Wealth=Income + Investments - Lifestyle
Ericsson
#566 Posted : Monday, October 19, 2020 1:20:09 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/4/2009
Posts: 9,137
Location: NAIROBI
VituVingiSana wrote:
Ericsson wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
Ericsson wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
Ericsson wrote:
Kenya Reinsurance has put a tender for sale of Reinsurance Plaza Kisumu.
Reserve price Ksh.1 billion
Applause Applause Applause Sell and pay a dividend Applause Are there buyers at that price in this market?


The rich Indians from Kisumu or government though the process may take time to conclude.

Part of the proceeds may also be used to put up their new commercial building (twin towers) in Upper Hill
There are many rich Luos who can buy it. Applause

Using the proceeds to build a new commercial building in Upper Hill, in the near future, would be STUPID and CRIMINAL. Shame on you

The proceeds should be invested in the stock market if the prices remain low. The best is to pay out a dividend. Next best is a share buyback.


I said part of the proceeds.

Kenya Re will soon move it's head offices out of Reinsurance plaza since demand for office space by Judiciary is growing.

Several properties have been disposed off in the past and no special dividend given out,so I don't expect a change with this one.

Share buyback means a company has run out of ideas on how to invest it's money.

In your opinion, has Apple run out of ideas?

It's better they even use the money to make an acquisition/buy a stake in a reinsurance company in Africa that would yield returns.

If the shares they buy are able to give a cash return in terms of dividends equal to the rent they are getting from the property,then that would be considered a good bet.

Using any part of the proceeds for a new office building in Upper Hill (in the near future) is STUPID and CRIMINAL.

There is 18,000sf of vacant space in Kenya Re Towers. There are vacancies in Anniversary Towers too. Or they can rent from any of the MANY buildings in Upper Hill with large vacancies while reinvesting the money in higher yielding investments.

Agreed. Kenya Re is no ScanGroup re: dividends

Some firms, even with challenges, give 3-8% Dividend Yields with potential for substantial growth in future dividends and capital gains. Much better than offices in the near future.

The cost of the new building was estimated at 6bn which means the other 5bn+ would be pulled from high-yielding (default-free, no management risk) T-Bonds.

Britam Tower. Largely vacant.
UAP Tower. Huge vacancies.
Prism.
I&M Tower. Corporate offices moving to Parklands.

There are many others.

I&M bank head office is in I&M building along Kenyatta Avenue and not I&M towers
Wealth is built through a relatively simple equation
Wealth=Income + Investments - Lifestyle
Ebenyo
#567 Posted : Monday, October 19, 2020 5:33:57 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 4/4/2016
Posts: 1,879
Location: Kitale
Ericsson wrote:
Kenya Reinsurance has put a tender for sale of Reinsurance Plaza Kisumu.
Reserve price Ksh.1 billion



A special dividend will be great
Towards the goal of financial freedom
VituVingiSana
#568 Posted : Monday, October 19, 2020 7:28:15 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 17,328
Location: Nairobi
Ericsson wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
Ericsson wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
Ericsson wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
Ericsson wrote:
Kenya Reinsurance has put a tender for sale of Reinsurance Plaza Kisumu.
Reserve price Ksh.1 billion
Applause Applause Applause Sell and pay a dividend Applause Are there buyers at that price in this market?


The rich Indians from Kisumu or government though the process may take time to conclude.

Part of the proceeds may also be used to put up their new commercial building (twin towers) in Upper Hill
There are many rich Luos who can buy it. Applause

Using the proceeds to build a new commercial building in Upper Hill, in the near future, would be STUPID and CRIMINAL. Shame on you

The proceeds should be invested in the stock market if the prices remain low. The best is to pay out a dividend. Next best is a share buyback.


I said part of the proceeds.

Kenya Re will soon move it's head offices out of Reinsurance plaza since demand for office space by Judiciary is growing.

Several properties have been disposed off in the past and no special dividend given out,so I don't expect a change with this one.

Share buyback means a company has run out of ideas on how to invest it's money.

In your opinion, has Apple run out of ideas?

It's better they even use the money to make an acquisition/buy a stake in a reinsurance company in Africa that would yield returns.

If the shares they buy are able to give a cash return in terms of dividends equal to the rent they are getting from the property,then that would be considered a good bet.

Using any part of the proceeds for a new office building in Upper Hill (in the near future) is STUPID and CRIMINAL.

There is 18,000sf of vacant space in Kenya Re Towers. There are vacancies in Anniversary Towers too. Or they can rent from any of the MANY buildings in Upper Hill with large vacancies while reinvesting the money in higher yielding investments.

Agreed. Kenya Re is no ScanGroup re: dividends

Some firms, even with challenges, give 3-8% Dividend Yields with potential for substantial growth in future dividends and capital gains. Much better than offices in the near future.

The cost of the new building was estimated at 6bn which means the other 5bn+ would be pulled from high-yielding (default-free, no management risk) T-Bonds.

Britam Tower. Largely vacant.
UAP Tower. Huge vacancies.
Prism.
I&M Tower. Corporate offices moving to Parklands.

There are many others.

I&M bank head office is in I&M building along Kenyatta Avenue and not I&M towers
The Directors' Offices were (now moving to Parklands) in I&M House (in Upper Hill) which was NOT owned (but leased) by I&M.
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
Ericsson
#569 Posted : Tuesday, October 20, 2020 6:12:06 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/4/2009
Posts: 9,137
Location: NAIROBI
Ebenyo wrote:
Ericsson wrote:
Kenya Reinsurance has put a tender for sale of Reinsurance Plaza Kisumu.
Reserve price Ksh.1 billion



A special dividend will be great

From past experiences I don't see this coming.

Kenya Re needs to rejig their portfolio.
They should reduce their holding in government securities.Going forward yields on them are going down which will reduce the interest income.
Their portfolio in quoted securities is very small at ksh.2bn yet assets is 53bn.
In my opinion a good level of holdings in quoted securities should be about ksh.6bn
Wealth is built through a relatively simple equation
Wealth=Income + Investments - Lifestyle
VituVingiSana
#570 Posted : Tuesday, October 20, 2020 6:39:46 AM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 17,328
Location: Nairobi
Ericsson wrote:
Ebenyo wrote:
Ericsson wrote:
Kenya Reinsurance has put a tender for sale of Reinsurance Plaza Kisumu.
Reserve price Ksh.1 billion



A special dividend will be great

From past experiences I don't see this coming.

Kenya Re needs to rejig their portfolio.
They should reduce their holding in government securities.Going forward yields on them are going down which will reduce the interest income.
Their portfolio in quoted securities is very small at ksh.2bn yet assets is 53bn.
In my opinion a good level of holdings in quoted securities should be about ksh.6bn
From 2bn to 6bn (with total assets of 53bn) hardly moves the needle. 10bn minimum (20%) in equities (at low prices) in good firms and reduce the % exposure to real estate.

Trying to sell the Kisumu building is a good start.
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
Ericsson
#571 Posted : Tuesday, October 20, 2020 7:33:04 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/4/2009
Posts: 9,137
Location: NAIROBI
VituVingiSana wrote:
Ericsson wrote:
Ebenyo wrote:
Ericsson wrote:
Kenya Reinsurance has put a tender for sale of Reinsurance Plaza Kisumu.
Reserve price Ksh.1 billion



A special dividend will be great

From past experiences I don't see this coming.

Kenya Re needs to rejig their portfolio.
They should reduce their holding in government securities.Going forward yields on them are going down which will reduce the interest income.
Their portfolio in quoted securities is very small at ksh.2bn yet assets is 53bn.
In my opinion a good level of holdings in quoted securities should be about ksh.6bn
From 2bn to 6bn (with total assets of 53bn) hardly moves the needle. 10bn minimum (20%) in equities (at low prices) in good firms and reduce the % exposure to real estate.

Trying to sell the Kisumu building is a good start.


Yes and some of their real estate properties have disputes/cases,disposal may take time.
At sh.6bn or 10bn at low prices,means if they have a good selection the prices will rise significantly thereby reducing the share of real estate as a percentage of the total assets.
NB:I would say a percentage of 12-15% for quoted equities at low prices.
The remaining 15% they can allocate in unquoted equities such as their holdings in Zep Re,Uganda Re,Africa Re,ATI etc.
Wealth is built through a relatively simple equation
Wealth=Income + Investments - Lifestyle
Balaa
#572 Posted : Friday, October 23, 2020 2:18:07 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 7/6/2018
Posts: 168
Location: Kinshasa
Kenya Re in KES 1.2 billion court row with KRA

https://youtu.be/jq3e9eV2F5Q
If it don't make dollars, it don't make sense
Ericsson
#573 Posted : Sunday, October 25, 2020 9:58:14 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/4/2009
Posts: 9,137
Location: NAIROBI
VituVingiSana wrote:
Ericsson wrote:
Ebenyo wrote:
Ericsson wrote:
Kenya Reinsurance has put a tender for sale of Reinsurance Plaza Kisumu.
Reserve price Ksh.1 billion



A special dividend will be great

From past experiences I don't see this coming.

Kenya Re needs to rejig their portfolio.
They should reduce their holding in government securities.Going forward yields on them are going down which will reduce the interest income.
Their portfolio in quoted securities is very small at ksh.2bn yet assets is 53bn.
In my opinion a good level of holdings in quoted securities should be about ksh.6bn
From 2bn to 6bn (with total assets of 53bn) hardly moves the needle. 10bn minimum (20%) in equities (at low prices) in good firms and reduce the % exposure to real estate.

Trying to sell the Kisumu building is a good start.


As per half year results,Real estate/property portfolio comprises 23% of their assets.
The figure of total value of real estate will go up as some of the disputes/cases they have come into conclusion.
Wealth is built through a relatively simple equation
Wealth=Income + Investments - Lifestyle
Ericsson
#574 Posted : Wednesday, November 11, 2020 10:46:44 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/4/2009
Posts: 9,137
Location: NAIROBI
Kenya Re handed its dividend cheque to treasury Cabinet Secretary Ukur Yattani today.
Seems other shareholders have started receiving.
Wealth is built through a relatively simple equation
Wealth=Income + Investments - Lifestyle
Ebenyo
#575 Posted : Tuesday, November 17, 2020 3:40:40 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 4/4/2016
Posts: 1,879
Location: Kitale
Ericsson wrote:
Kenya Re handed its dividend cheque to treasury Cabinet Secretary Ukur Yattani today.
Seems other shareholders have started receiving.




Other shareholders will start receiving on 20th
Towards the goal of financial freedom
VituVingiSana
#576 Posted : Tuesday, November 17, 2020 6:48:13 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 17,328
Location: Nairobi
Ebenyo wrote:
Ericsson wrote:
Kenya Re handed its dividend cheque to treasury Cabinet Secretary Ukur Yattani today.
Seems other shareholders have started receiving.




Other shareholders will start receiving on 20th
Animal Farm. Some are "better" than others.
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
heri
#577 Posted : Tuesday, November 17, 2020 7:42:40 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 9/14/2011
Posts: 791
Location: nairobi
VituVingiSana wrote:
Ebenyo wrote:
Ericsson wrote:
Kenya Re handed its dividend cheque to treasury Cabinet Secretary Ukur Yattani today.
Seems other shareholders have started receiving.




Other shareholders will start receiving on 20th
Animal Farm. Some are "better" than others.


Or could it be that some are more 'broke' than others and need any urgent help they can get
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