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Cytonn Investments
VituVingiSana
#1081 Posted : Sunday, February 14, 2021 9:59:51 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 17,395
Location: Nairobi
poundfoolish wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
poundfoolish wrote:
paulkimani wrote:

Cytonn’s in-house lawyer, Patricia Wanjama – as well as being enjoined in the Britam suit – is being investigated by the LSK disciplinary committee. Her own father sits on the board of the LSK disciplinary committee, and Cytonn also now sponsors the LSK - as stated on the LSK website.


Many companies and individuals are creating real estate deals much larger than Cytonn – which begs the question – why is the media focusing on Cytonn (see BD article on Cytonn “Causing a storm” in the real estate market) – Are they “sponsoring” the media also?

I understand Horton did not approve of this comment on a previous thread as I am a “Hello”, however these are indeed important questions to ask before investing your money with anyone. Yes, I am new to this – I am also aware that if you invest, you must do so having conducted the necessary due diligence to ensure your investment is in safe and clean hands.
I’d be interested to read other people’s opinions on this forum.



You joined on 19th January 2016 and that there, what I have quoted, on 21st January 2016 was your first post.
You have kept the thread going for 5 years. 56 pages later and 1,072 posts on how the company is going down.

I have to give it to you on consistency. May your next paymaster be as generous and persistent
Lots of respect for @paulkimani. Reminds me of KQ, after 2012, and the constant abuse anyone who said anything that wasn't praising KQ took... Laughing out loudly Perhaps some of us may have thought of investing in Cytonn but lucked out thanks to PK


To each his own..
We should thank those who share their insights and information. PK has been on the ball. And things are not looking much better for Cytonn unless the real estate market has a sharp reversal. Good luck to all.
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
tony stark
#1082 Posted : Monday, February 15, 2021 1:21:12 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 7/8/2008
Posts: 906

VituVingiSana wrote:
poundfoolish wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
poundfoolish wrote:
paulkimani wrote:

Cytonn’s in-house lawyer, Patricia Wanjama – as well as being enjoined in the Britam suit – is being investigated by the LSK disciplinary committee. Her own father sits on the board of the LSK disciplinary committee, and Cytonn also now sponsors the LSK - as stated on the LSK website.


Many companies and individuals are creating real estate deals much larger than Cytonn – which begs the question – why is the media focusing on Cytonn (see BD article on Cytonn “Causing a storm” in the real estate market) – Are they “sponsoring” the media also?

I understand Horton did not approve of this comment on a previous thread as I am a “Hello”, however these are indeed important questions to ask before investing your money with anyone. Yes, I am new to this – I am also aware that if you invest, you must do so having conducted the necessary due diligence to ensure your investment is in safe and clean hands.
I’d be interested to read other people’s opinions on this forum.



You joined on 19th January 2016 and that there, what I have quoted, on 21st January 2016 was your first post.
You have kept the thread going for 5 years. 56 pages later and 1,072 posts on how the company is going down.

I have to give it to you on consistency. May your next paymaster be as generous and persistent
Lots of respect for @paulkimani. Reminds me of KQ, after 2012, and the constant abuse anyone who said anything that wasn't praising KQ took... Laughing out loudly Perhaps some of us may have thought of investing in Cytonn but lucked out thanks to PK


To each his own..
We should thank those who share their insights and information. PK has been on the ball. And things are not looking much better for Cytonn unless the real estate market has a sharp reversal. Good luck to all.


I agree we should thank people, however slander and outright malice do not deserve thanks.
Talking about people having "white powder" on their nose before a meeting with a client?? That's completely uncalled for. Even if the whole leadership is a bunch of junkies, I highly doubt they would be appearing before clients with coke stains on their nose. That is bullshit and should not be thanked.

The discussions on cytonn have been very different from the KQ discussions in the early 10s. There were discussion on fundamental like hedging on fuel this paul kimani discussion has been about people and rarely does he ever get to fundamentals.

paulkimani
#1083 Posted : Tuesday, February 23, 2021 9:44:53 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 1/19/2016
Posts: 157
“Three businessmen sue Cytonn over Ksh.46 million investment”

https://citizentv.co.ke/...ion-investment-7040145/



PS thanks to the ones supporting me on this forum
sparkly
#1084 Posted : Wednesday, February 24, 2021 2:01:30 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/23/2009
Posts: 7,935
Location: Enk are Nyirobi
paulkimani wrote:
“Three businessmen sue Cytonn over Ksh.46 million investment”

https://citizentv.co.ke/...ion-investment-7040145/



PS thanks to the ones supporting me on this forum


Why is this news? Mention any serious business in operation and I will point you to at least 10 cases where they have sued or been sued.
Life is short. Live passionately.
paulkimani
#1085 Posted : Wednesday, February 24, 2021 3:30:59 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 1/19/2016
Posts: 157
because, sparkly, it LITERALLY was in the news yesterday and i will continue posting news articles. you're asking questions with the answers already in themselves just to hate. go outside, breathe some fresh air and scroll past what i post if it agitates you that much.
paulkimani
#1086 Posted : Wednesday, February 24, 2021 3:34:47 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 1/19/2016
Posts: 157
Freedom of expression is enshrined in Article 33 of the 2010 constitution and includes the rights to seek, receive, or impart information and ideas.


It may be LIMITED which ONLY MEANS propaganda, hate speech, and incitement to violence are not protected by the constitution. Posting NEWS articles and ALSO having PERSONAL opinions are protected. If they were not, we would be in a dictatorship WHICH WE ARE NOT IN.

Don't talk about what you don't know sparkly. You may dislike me but don't lie just to say something about me!d'oh!


sparkly wrote:
There are only 4 absolute rights under our Constitution that cannot be limited. Free speech isn't one of them (See Articles 24 & 25 of the Constitution).


[quote=paulkimani]People are being SUED by CYTONN for writing on social media that they have not been paid.

Investors have not been paid and yet a company is trying to silence them.
Our constitution allows for free speech.
Cytonn is trying to stop an investor having the right to freedom of speech. Let that sink in.

Cytonn is using a baseless legal tactic to try stall attention away from
The Fact they have not paid clients. This suit will not hold in a court of law.

sparkly
#1087 Posted : Wednesday, February 24, 2021 9:10:24 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/23/2009
Posts: 7,935
Location: Enk are Nyirobi
paulkimani wrote:
Freedom of expression is enshrined in Article 33 of the 2010 constitution and includes the rights to seek, receive, or impart information and ideas.


It may be LIMITED which ONLY MEANS propaganda, hate speech, and incitement to violence are not protected by the constitution. Posting NEWS articles and ALSO having PERSONAL opinions are protected. If they were not, we would be in a dictatorship WHICH WE ARE NOT IN.

Don't talk about what you don't know sparkly. You may dislike me but don't lie just to say something about me!d'oh!


sparkly wrote:
There are only 4 absolute rights under our Constitution that cannot be limited. Free speech isn't one of them (See Articles 24 & 25 of the Constitution).


[quote=paulkimani]People are being SUED by CYTONN for writing on social media that they have not been paid.

Investors have not been paid and yet a company is trying to silence them.
Our constitution allows for free speech.
Cytonn is trying to stop an investor having the right to freedom of speech. Let that sink in.

Cytonn is using a baseless legal tactic to try stall attention away from
The Fact they have not paid clients. This suit will not hold in a court of law.



Is it your intention to teach Law to a Lawyer of several year's standing and a Masters of Law Degree?
Life is short. Live passionately.
paulkimani
#1088 Posted : Wednesday, February 24, 2021 9:28:52 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 1/19/2016
Posts: 157
Intention is to correct you, or any lawyer or layman who has misread the main legal text of our country, regardless of any masters you or anyone holds.

Also a little embarrassing, isn’t it, that you aren’t aware of the fundamental rights granted to us by our constitution, wakili. A repeat of KSL may be something for you to consider.

PS - it’s “years” not year’s
PPS - Law and Lawyer should not be capitalised unless at the beginning of a sentence. You may want to repeat legal skills and legal drafting modules at KSL.


At the end of the day, anyone with funds can hold a degree. Whether or not they are smart, or have any knowledge (in this case of the Kenyan Constitution) is another matter.


sparkly wrote:
paulkimani wrote:
Freedom of expression is enshrined in Article 33 of the 2010 constitution and includes the rights to seek, receive, or impart information and ideas.


It may be LIMITED which ONLY MEANS propaganda, hate speech, and incitement to violence are not protected by the constitution. Posting NEWS articles and ALSO having PERSONAL opinions are protected. If they were not, we would be in a dictatorship WHICH WE ARE NOT IN.

Don't talk about what you don't know sparkly. You may dislike me but don't lie just to say something about me!d'oh!


sparkly wrote:
There are only 4 absolute rights under our Constitution that cannot be limited. Free speech isn't one of them (See Articles 24 & 25 of the Constitution).


[quote=paulkimani]People are being SUED by CYTONN for writing on social media that they have not been paid.

Investors have not been paid and yet a company is trying to silence them.
Our constitution allows for free speech.
Cytonn is trying to stop an investor having the right to freedom of speech. Let that sink in.

Cytonn is using a baseless legal tactic to try stall attention away from
The Fact they have not paid clients. This suit will not hold in a court of law.



Is it your intention to teach Law to a Lawyer of several year's standing and a Masters of Law Degree?

sparkly
#1089 Posted : Thursday, February 25, 2021 6:47:39 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/23/2009
Posts: 7,935
Location: Enk are Nyirobi
paulkimani wrote:
Intention is to correct you, or any lawyer or layman who has misread the main legal text of our country, regardless of any masters you or anyone holds.

Also a little embarrassing, isn’t it, that you aren’t aware of the fundamental rights granted to us by our constitution, wakili. A repeat of KSL may be something for you to consider.

PS - it’s “years” not year’s
PPS - Law and Lawyer should not be capitalised unless at the beginning of a sentence. You may want to repeat legal skills and legal drafting modules at KSL.


At the end of the day, anyone with funds can hold a degree. Whether or not they are smart, or have any knowledge (in this case of the Kenyan Constitution) is another matter.


sparkly wrote:
paulkimani wrote:
Freedom of expression is enshrined in Article 33 of the 2010 constitution and includes the rights to seek, receive, or impart information and ideas.


It may be LIMITED which ONLY MEANS propaganda, hate speech, and incitement to violence are not protected by the constitution. Posting NEWS articles and ALSO having PERSONAL opinions are protected. If they were not, we would be in a dictatorship WHICH WE ARE NOT IN.

Don't talk about what you don't know sparkly. You may dislike me but don't lie just to say something about me!d'oh!


sparkly wrote:
There are only 4 absolute rights under our Constitution that cannot be limited. Free speech isn't one of them (See Articles 24 & 25 of the Constitution).


[quote=paulkimani]People are being SUED by CYTONN for writing on social media that they have not been paid.

Investors have not been paid and yet a company is trying to silence them.
Our constitution allows for free speech.
Cytonn is trying to stop an investor having the right to freedom of speech. Let that sink in.

Cytonn is using a baseless legal tactic to try stall attention away from
The Fact they have not paid clients. This suit will not hold in a court of law.



Is it your intention to teach Law to a Lawyer of several year's standing and a Masters of Law Degree?




1. The tragedy nowadays is that even people with Diplomas in Mass Communication from KIMC read the Constitution like a story book and assume they are experts in the law.

2. Go back to Article 33 and read Sub-Article (3), which reads:

Quote:
33(3) In the exercise of the right to freedom of expression, every person shall respect the rights and reputation of others.

Life is short. Live passionately.
paulkimani
#1090 Posted : Thursday, February 25, 2021 7:19:32 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 1/19/2016
Posts: 157
Being able to post news articles and give ones opinion on a company which already has a terrible reputation and has been accused of fraud by companies like Britam IS FREEDOM OF SPEECH and not disrespecting any persons rights. Just because the CEO of Cytonn cries foul anytime there’s any bad publicity is no ones problem, except his own ego.

You clearly have misinterpreted the law. Maybe you are Cytonn’s legal intern, as they don’t have a strong in-house legal. That’s my opinion which is protected under our Constitution. Anyway good morning and good bye. This conversation has gone off topic from the thread. Keep hating.

sparkly wrote:
paulkimani wrote:
Intention is to correct you, or any lawyer or layman who has misread the main legal text of our country, regardless of any masters you or anyone holds.

Also a little embarrassing, isn’t it, that you aren’t aware of the fundamental rights granted to us by our constitution, wakili. A repeat of KSL may be something for you to consider.

PS - it’s “years” not year’s
PPS - Law and Lawyer should not be capitalised unless at the beginning of a sentence. You may want to repeat legal skills and legal drafting modules at KSL.


At the end of the day, anyone with funds can hold a degree. Whether or not they are smart, or have any knowledge (in this case of the Kenyan Constitution) is another matter.


sparkly wrote:
paulkimani wrote:
Freedom of expression is enshrined in Article 33 of the 2010 constitution and includes the rights to seek, receive, or impart information and ideas.


It may be LIMITED which ONLY MEANS propaganda, hate speech, and incitement to violence are not protected by the constitution. Posting NEWS articles and ALSO having PERSONAL opinions are protected. If they were not, we would be in a dictatorship WHICH WE ARE NOT IN.

Don't talk about what you don't know sparkly. You may dislike me but don't lie just to say something about me!d'oh!


sparkly wrote:
There are only 4 absolute rights under our Constitution that cannot be limited. Free speech isn't one of them (See Articles 24 & 25 of the Constitution).


[quote=paulkimani]People are being SUED by CYTONN for writing on social media that they have not been paid.

Investors have not been paid and yet a company is trying to silence them.
Our constitution allows for free speech.
Cytonn is trying to stop an investor having the right to freedom of speech. Let that sink in.

Cytonn is using a baseless legal tactic to try stall attention away from
The Fact they have not paid clients. This suit will not hold in a court of law.



Is it your intention to teach Law to a Lawyer of several year's standing and a Masters of Law Degree?




1. The tragedy nowadays is that even people with Diplomas in Mass Communication from KIMC read the Constitution like a story book and assume they are experts in the law.

2. Go back to Article 33 and read Sub-Article (3), which reads:

Quote:
33(3) In the exercise of the right to freedom of expression, every person shall respect the rights and reputation of others.


sparkly
#1091 Posted : Thursday, February 25, 2021 9:47:55 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/23/2009
Posts: 7,935
Location: Enk are Nyirobi
paulkimani wrote:
Being able to post news articles and give ones opinion on a company which already has a terrible reputation and has been accused of fraud by companies like Britam IS FREEDOM OF SPEECH and not disrespecting any persons rights. Just because the CEO of Cytonn cries foul anytime there’s any bad publicity is no ones problem, except his own ego.

You clearly have misinterpreted the law. Maybe you are Cytonn’s legal intern, as they don’t have a strong in-house legal. That’s my opinion which is protected under our Constitution. Anyway good morning and good bye. This conversation has gone off topic from the thread. Keep hating.

sparkly wrote:
paulkimani wrote:
Intention is to correct you, or any lawyer or layman who has misread the main legal text of our country, regardless of any masters you or anyone holds.

Also a little embarrassing, isn’t it, that you aren’t aware of the fundamental rights granted to us by our constitution, wakili. A repeat of KSL may be something for you to consider.

PS - it’s “years” not year’s
PPS - Law and Lawyer should not be capitalised unless at the beginning of a sentence. You may want to repeat legal skills and legal drafting modules at KSL.


At the end of the day, anyone with funds can hold a degree. Whether or not they are smart, or have any knowledge (in this case of the Kenyan Constitution) is another matter.


sparkly wrote:
paulkimani wrote:
Freedom of expression is enshrined in Article 33 of the 2010 constitution and includes the rights to seek, receive, or impart information and ideas.


It may be LIMITED which ONLY MEANS propaganda, hate speech, and incitement to violence are not protected by the constitution. Posting NEWS articles and ALSO having PERSONAL opinions are protected. If they were not, we would be in a dictatorship WHICH WE ARE NOT IN.

Don't talk about what you don't know sparkly. You may dislike me but don't lie just to say something about me!d'oh!


sparkly wrote:
There are only 4 absolute rights under our Constitution that cannot be limited. Free speech isn't one of them (See Articles 24 & 25 of the Constitution).


[quote=paulkimani]People are being SUED by CYTONN for writing on social media that they have not been paid.

Investors have not been paid and yet a company is trying to silence them.
Our constitution allows for free speech.
Cytonn is trying to stop an investor having the right to freedom of speech. Let that sink in.

Cytonn is using a baseless legal tactic to try stall attention away from
The Fact they have not paid clients. This suit will not hold in a court of law.



Is it your intention to teach Law to a Lawyer of several year's standing and a Masters of Law Degree?




1. The tragedy nowadays is that even people with Diplomas in Mass Communication from KIMC read the Constitution like a story book and assume they are experts in the law.

2. Go back to Article 33 and read Sub-Article (3), which reads:

Quote:
33(3) In the exercise of the right to freedom of expression, every person shall respect the rights and reputation of others.




1. @PaulKimani stop reading the Constitution like a story book. It is a legal document, to be read legally and interpreted legally. I cannot have misinterpreted the law because I merely stated the law. Interpreting the law involves laying out a set of facts, the applicable legal principles and an analysis of why the law applies or does not apply to the set of facts.

2. Let me set the law, further for your information:

(a) The Constitution guarantees the right to free speech. However, the right to free speech must be exercised with due respect to other people's rights and reputation.

(b) The Constitution is the the foundation law, giving effect to other sources of law in Kenya. The Judicature Act tells us what the sources of law in Kenya are. They include Statutes (Acts of Parliament); Common Law , Principles of Natural Justice and Equity, Customary Law etc

(c) The specific legal principles on respecting other people's reputation are found in the Defamation Act and Common Law. The Defamation Act is a very small Statute which lays down the basic principles on what reputation is, how and when reputation can be disrespected.

(d) The bulk of defamation law is inferred from Common Law. Common Law is Judge Made Law i.e. progressive pronouncements of courts when faced with practical cases requiring determination.

(e) There are many cases in Kenya where people with "terrible reputation" as you call them have sued and been awarded compensation for injury to their reputation e.g.

(i) Nicholas Biwott sued various persons and media houses for linking him to Ouko murder among other scandals - Awarded KShs 67.5 million

(ii) Chris Murungaru sued John Githongo for calling him corrupt - Awarded KShs 27 million.

(iii) Judge Visram sued Standard Newspapers for insinuating that he was corrupt - Awarded KShs 26 million.

(iv) Advocate Machira sued Nation Newspapers for insinuating that he was beaten by his client (instead of stating correctly that he was beaten by a woman who had bought land from him) - Awarded KShs 10 Million

(v) Tony Mochama sued two ladies for accusing him of raping another lady - Awarded KShs 9 million.

3. In conclusion, you can be sued for what you believe is fair comment and pay dearly for it. In fact, your statements about my legal qualifications and capabilities are highly defamatory. I will sue you any time now, just to teach you a lesson, and this is not a threat.

THAT IS THE LAW!
Life is short. Live passionately.
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