Home SK - Stocks, Property, Investment Chamas - Investment Groups BIZ - Small Business Soko - Market Wazua Life About Wazua
SIGN IN REGISTER
Sunday, Sep 26, 2021
Groups
To contribute to these and use other features, please register.
LATEST DISCUSSIONS
Cytonn Investments [1315]
Safaricom Investment Cooperative [427]
Pacific Realty ----Daily Nation pages 2&,3 9th ... [7]
Mhasibu Investment Company Limited (MICL) Rights [42]
SK Investments Co. still alive? [37]
Urithi Housing Sacco [190]
UNAITAS [1232]
Stock Market in Uganda [4]
The best sacco to join [160]
Safaricom investment - query [13]
Best Trees for a Tree Forest? [99]
Banks Loans adjustments after rates drop [2]
Amana Capital [12]
Ekeza savings and credit Sacco [66]
Supermarket Supplies [10]
 
Forum Jump








Welcome Guest Search | Active Topics | Log In | Register

66 Pages«<646566
Cytonn Investments
Queen
#1301 Posted : Tuesday, September 07, 2021 6:06:13 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 11/21/2018
Posts: 475
Location: Britain
My 2 cents wrote:
For those that think MM funds equate to zero risk, please google Amana Capital.


True. Amana drank clients money, just like Cytonn has done.
sparkly
#1302 Posted : Tuesday, September 07, 2021 8:36:08 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/23/2009
Posts: 7,997
Location: Enk are Nyirobi
Queen wrote:
My 2 cents wrote:
For those that think MM funds equate to zero risk, please google Amana Capital.


True. Amana drank clients money, just like Cytonn has done.


Is there any such thing as zero risk?
Life is short. Live passionately.
Thiong'o
#1303 Posted : Thursday, September 09, 2021 9:57:08 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 10/14/2011
Posts: 660
sparkly wrote:
Queen wrote:
My 2 cents wrote:
For those that think MM funds equate to zero risk, please google Amana Capital.


True. Amana drank clients money, just like Cytonn has done.


Is there any such thing as zero risk?


If you invest directly with CBK in Treasury Bills and/or Bonds what will be the risk?
rwitre
#1304 Posted : Thursday, September 09, 2021 11:14:28 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 3/8/2018
Posts: 503
Location: Nairobi
Thiong'o wrote:
sparkly wrote:
Queen wrote:
My 2 cents wrote:
For those that think MM funds equate to zero risk, please google Amana Capital.


True. Amana drank clients money, just like Cytonn has done.


Is there any such thing as zero risk?


If you invest directly with CBK in Treasury Bills and/or Bonds what will be the risk?


Risk is mismanaging the economy.

Argentina, Belize, Ecuador, Lebanon and Suriname all defaulted on their debt in 2020

Zambia defaulted on its Eurobond payment (first African country to do so)

Remember Greece in 2015? Defaulted on $1.7 billion IMF payment

GoK T-Bills and Bonds come with the same risk.
"But they can just print more money to pay it off" Who wants to be paid the same interest in a devalued currency?

Zero risk is a myth
sparkly
#1305 Posted : Saturday, September 11, 2021 12:23:28 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/23/2009
Posts: 7,997
Location: Enk are Nyirobi
Thiong'o wrote:
sparkly wrote:
Queen wrote:
My 2 cents wrote:
For those that think MM funds equate to zero risk, please google Amana Capital.


True. Amana drank clients money, just like Cytonn has done.


Is there any such thing as zero risk?


If you invest directly with CBK in Treasury Bills and/or Bonds what will be the risk?


Sovereign risk. The risk that Government will default on its covenants, resulting in unpaid obligations, runaway interest rates and inflation Re Argentina, Greece, Zimbabwe. You get paid your money but need wheel barrows to carry it from the bank, and the next day your money is worth half of whatever you collected.
Life is short. Live passionately.
tony stark
#1306 Posted : Monday, September 13, 2021 5:24:32 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 7/8/2008
Posts: 928
Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly
Spot on. Thanks for the overview. Point taken!!! Applause Applause Applause Applause Applause

rwitre wrote:
The back and forth on this thread Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly

Cytonn HYS clients: You invested in a high risk fund that pumped capital into real estate, and the market is now largely illiquid
(Talk to every other real estate developer and property auctioneer and see how "well" they are fairing)

Cytonn bashers: Cherry picking on one firm and saying the sky is falling since one of its products is faltering? Must be nice running your lucrative business.

Legal: CMA and Cytonn court debacles. CMA hands are largely tied because technically Cytonn is following its contract terms.

PR: Cytonn aggressively pushed HYS, and overlaying terms with the regulated Cytonn HYF (High Yield Fund) could easily mislead investors.

Investors: Every investment has its risks. Do your research before jumping in. There's a reason why riskier funds come with higher rates.
Even countries can default on sovereign debt.

My advice: If you have money in HYS, either write it off, or wait it out.
I hear there is an option to top up and buy one of the properties for the anxious and moneyed.



tony stark
#1307 Posted : Monday, September 13, 2021 5:31:07 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 7/8/2008
Posts: 928
VituVingiSana wrote:
tony stark wrote:
muganda wrote:
Pain caused needs to be shared. Can't believe the Cytonnaires have not yet replaced Cytonn as the fund manager. Unless Cytonn revenue is directly affected, pain is not aligned.


But how many Cytonnaires are there in the CHYS?? Probably less than 5000. But the largest capital is mainly held by a few so less than 100 people probably held by 60-80% of the fund.

The Cytonn contract is actually very solid and this risk is in the contract. The few cytonnaires who went to court just wasted money .... all this is in the contract.

There is noise and signal. Noise is PK and wazua noisemakers. The signal is that underlying assest actually exist and the people who want to convert funds to property can actually do that. The challenge is that the noisemakers don't have enough to change their funds to property.

If you have the funds, do you really want an apartment in Alma? I would rather roll the dice on compounding of my investment and see where it lands me when the economy recovers than convert it to an apartment that I have to manage. Waste of time.

Separate the noise from the signal and you will see why the cytonnaires are not making noise.


Some Wazuans say even though the Alma development does look good the price for the Alma units is quite high vs comparable units in the area.
I agree that for some it may make more sense to take the units regardless of the pricing but for others who have to top-up a large enough sum, it doesn't make sense.

The real test is whether non-Cytonnaires are buying units. They have no money stuck in Cytonn so they would be unbiased and looking for value.

BTW, how does it work with such developments where there are multiple parties on the selling side? Will the banks give up title to an apartment they have a charge on if they don't get the cash?
E.g. If I have 10mn in CHYS and Cytonn agrees to sell me a unit for 10mn, how does the bank/lender benefit?


Partial release of mortgage is what will be done. and you get your title from the overall title. or if it is already divided and the bank has several titles then they just release your title. But most likely it is a partial release of the mortgage.

On the whether you are getting value in Alma is different strokes for different folks. It depends on whether you plan to live there, where you plan to work, etc. Is it good value for me ..... No! Not at that rental return. But I wouldn't mind living there.
Ali Baba
#1308 Posted : Monday, September 13, 2021 5:47:32 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 8/29/2008
Posts: 569
tony stark wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
tony stark wrote:
muganda wrote:
Pain caused needs to be shared. Can't believe the Cytonnaires have not yet replaced Cytonn as the fund manager. Unless Cytonn revenue is directly affected, pain is not aligned.


But how many Cytonnaires are there in the CHYS?? Probably less than 5000. But the largest capital is mainly held by a few so less than 100 people probably held by 60-80% of the fund.

The Cytonn contract is actually very solid and this risk is in the contract. The few cytonnaires who went to court just wasted money .... all this is in the contract.

There is noise and signal. Noise is PK and wazua noisemakers. The signal is that underlying assest actually exist and the people who want to convert funds to property can actually do that. The challenge is that the noisemakers don't have enough to change their funds to property.

If you have the funds, do you really want an apartment in Alma? I would rather roll the dice on compounding of my investment and see where it lands me when the economy recovers than convert it to an apartment that I have to manage. Waste of time.

Separate the noise from the signal and you will see why the cytonnaires are not making noise.


Some Wazuans say even though the Alma development does look good the price for the Alma units is quite high vs comparable units in the area.
I agree that for some it may make more sense to take the units regardless of the pricing but for others who have to top-up a large enough sum, it doesn't make sense.

The real test is whether non-Cytonnaires are buying units. They have no money stuck in Cytonn so they would be unbiased and looking for value.

BTW, how does it work with such developments where there are multiple parties on the selling side? Will the banks give up title to an apartment they have a charge on if they don't get the cash?
E.g. If I have 10mn in CHYS and Cytonn agrees to sell me a unit for 10mn, how does the bank/lender benefit?


Partial release of mortgage is what will be done. and you get your title from the overall title. or if it is already divided and the bank has several titles then they just release your title. But most likely it is a partial release of the mortgage.

On the whether you are getting value in Alma is different strokes for different folks. It depends on whether you plan to live there, where you plan to work, etc. Is it good value for me ..... No! Not at that rental return. But I wouldn't mind living there.
As a Wazua noisemaker, mine is just to whistle.
KulaRaha
#1309 Posted : Tuesday, September 14, 2021 8:39:58 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/26/2007
Posts: 6,509
Meanwhile, similar modus operandi in China:

https://www.theguardian....as-protesters-besiege-hq
Business opportunities are like buses,there's always another one coming
muganda
#1310 Posted : Tuesday, September 14, 2021 11:00:27 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/15/2006
Posts: 3,877
KulaRaha wrote:
Meanwhile, similar modus operandi in China:

https://www.theguardian....s-protesters-besiege-hq


Would China's new 'three-red lines' cut Cytonn to shreds?


Meanwhile, there's been some press (from Cytonn of course) praising a few stranded folk switching debt to property https://citizentv.co.ke/...e-homes-offer-13099089/

Similar firesale in Evergrande amounted to nought.

My 2 cents
#1311 Posted : Tuesday, September 14, 2021 3:15:17 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 6/2/2010
Posts: 612
Evergrande is Cytonn on steroids.
My 2 cents
#1312 Posted : Wednesday, September 15, 2021 8:37:46 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 6/2/2010
Posts: 612
Debt-ridden China Evergrande Group offered three options Monday to repay retail investors in its high-yield wealth management products after hundreds of them protested overdue payments Sunday.

Investors can accept cash installments, property or investors’ payables on residential units they have purchased, according to the plan announced by Du Liang, head of Evergrande’s wealth management unit.
My 2 cents
#1313 Posted : Monday, September 20, 2021 11:35:44 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 6/2/2010
Posts: 612
Evergrandes problems causing jitters in global stock markets and cryptos. Some are speculationg that this is 2021's Lehman momemt. Evergrande attempting to make debt repayments in unfinished flats, parking spaces, debt rescheduling etc.

We have heard this story locally. Cytonn. So much for 'there are underlying assets blah blah blah
poundfoolish
#1314 Posted : Monday, September 20, 2021 2:19:17 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/2/2009
Posts: 2,455
Location: Nairobi
My 2 cents wrote:
Evergrandes problems causing jitters in global stock markets and cryptos. Some are speculationg that this is 2021's Lehman momemt. Evergrande attempting to make debt repayments in unfinished flats, parking spaces, debt rescheduling etc.

We have heard this story locally. Cytonn. So much for 'there are underlying assets blah blah blah


Mr. Paul Kimani the blogger.. Have you looked at the companies portfolio.. or you just read headlines...?
My 2 cents
#1315 Posted : Monday, September 20, 2021 3:42:20 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 6/2/2010
Posts: 612
You mean the financials that they hardly publish anymore?
Users browsing this topic
Guest (2)
66 Pages«<646566
Forum Jump  
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.

Home | . .. Investor | .. . Groups | .. . SME | . . . Market | .. . Club SK | . ..... About Wazua | . .. Search | . ..Sitemap | . ..Support | . ..Disclaimer | . ..Privacy Policy | . ..Terms of Use | . .. Contact Us
Copyright © 2021 Wazua.co.ke. All Rights Reserved.