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religion demystified
hamburglar
#21 Posted : Saturday, December 16, 2017 6:31:11 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 12/17/2011
Posts: 807
Mukiri wrote:
masukuma wrote:
Mukiri wrote:
masukuma wrote:
T-Bag wrote:
Let people believe what their convictions are, in the fullness of time all will be revealed.
My Logic reasoning
1. God + believe = Heaven gain
2. No God + Believe = Loss for everyone
3. No God + No belief = Loss for everyone
4. God + No belief = Loss for those who don't believe.

Conclusion: I would rather believe on what does not exist than disbelief and find out i was wrong

Pascal's Wager? it's a pretty good thought process....
except when you realize 'God' is your 'God' and that title is not exactly some other person's 'God' - right?

now look outside yourself to someone in another belief system:
a Hindu in Nepal:
Logic reasoning
1. (Vishnu + Shiva + Brahmin) + believe = Nirvana gain
2. No (Vishnu + Shiva + Brahmin) + Believe = Loss for everyone
3. No (Vishnu + Shiva + Brahmin) + No belief = Loss for everyone
4. (Vishnu + Shiva + Brahmin) + No belief = Loss for those who don't believe.

To him - the Wager works - right? Let's match the best outcomes (1 and 4)

1) God + believe = (Vishnu + Shiva + Brahmin) + believe = Heaven gain
4) God + No belief = (Vishnu + Shiva + Brahmin) + No belief = Loss for those who don't believe.

so... we can deduce that God = (Vishnu + Shiva + Brahmin). we just picked 2 out of the around 4,200 CONFIDENT religions. how does that math play out?

My neighbor calls his God Mungu, the other Enkai while another Allah. Just like some will call you Ma-Kales, ma-thokoma etc does it change who you are?


2 questions
1) is your God synonymous with Vishnu? i.e. is Vishnu ( or Thor or Jupiter or Zeus) God?
2) is are acts of obedience towards/belief to Vishnu ( or Thor or Jupiter or Zeus) the same acts of obedience towards/belief towards God?

When describing a cow, those viewing it from the mouth might say 'If produces interesting liquids and solids' probably referring to the saliva and food crumbs. Those from the side might even go as far as 'One can even pet it' probably referring to the sweat. Bot fresh and dried. Those viewing it from the anus (And no I'm not saying this is where you choose to be) might not find te oter two people to be very amusing! Same cow.

Conjecture. You choose to argue on semantics. But when viewed in totality, God is God. He is who He is.

I look at an Indian and I see myself. A man with nose, a skin and hair like me. Never mind the genetic differences. Same thing when I look at a European and/or Hispanic. I can then conclude that the God that created them, is the same God that created me. That is what matters


Is this god that created you the same one that created mosquitoes? Well Mukiri, let Mr. God know that those little suckers are killing people unabated to the tune of 3 million folks a year with over 80% of those being kids. For such a miraculous man, how could he not see this coming? He must have f***ed up when he created mosquitoes and now doesn't want to uncreate them coz he is evil. I guess he enjoys seeing kids die a painful death every day inflicted by his masterful creation which he so carefully designed and even decided to throw in a whistling ability for his beloved mosquitoes. What is the whistling for, to let you know that death is imminent? What a douchebag, who does that? Lol.

Oh. And what the f*** did he create snakes for too? Exactly what was he thinking? Was he like "today am going to create some ugly reptiles and fill them with enough venom to kill dozens of men with one bite, it's going to be awesome, high fives for everybody, the first round is on me tonight". Really? Later that evening when akina Abraham and Moses were having a drink at their local, they must have been like, "what the f*** was that long venomous thing that the old man just created? Did you see when he created that one that can stand on its belly and spit venom into people's eyes? Goodness gracious, I think that old fart has definitely lost his mind."

This god guy has a very diabolical mind. I don't think he is well upstairs, he might be a few fries short of a happy meal. Lol.
Mukiri
#22 Posted : Saturday, December 16, 2017 10:08:15 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/11/2012
Posts: 5,178
hamburglar wrote:
Mukiri wrote:
masukuma wrote:
Mukiri wrote:
masukuma wrote:
T-Bag wrote:
Let people believe what their convictions are, in the fullness of time all will be revealed.
My Logic reasoning
1. God + believe = Heaven gain
2. No God + Believe = Loss for everyone
3. No God + No belief = Loss for everyone
4. God + No belief = Loss for those who don't believe.

Conclusion: I would rather believe on what does not exist than disbelief and find out i was wrong

Pascal's Wager? it's a pretty good thought process....
except when you realize 'God' is your 'God' and that title is not exactly some other person's 'God' - right?

now look outside yourself to someone in another belief system:
a Hindu in Nepal:
Logic reasoning
1. (Vishnu + Shiva + Brahmin) + believe = Nirvana gain
2. No (Vishnu + Shiva + Brahmin) + Believe = Loss for everyone
3. No (Vishnu + Shiva + Brahmin) + No belief = Loss for everyone
4. (Vishnu + Shiva + Brahmin) + No belief = Loss for those who don't believe.

To him - the Wager works - right? Let's match the best outcomes (1 and 4)

1) God + believe = (Vishnu + Shiva + Brahmin) + believe = Heaven gain
4) God + No belief = (Vishnu + Shiva + Brahmin) + No belief = Loss for those who don't believe.

so... we can deduce that God = (Vishnu + Shiva + Brahmin). we just picked 2 out of the around 4,200 CONFIDENT religions. how does that math play out?

My neighbor calls his God Mungu, the other Enkai while another Allah. Just like some will call you Ma-Kales, ma-thokoma etc does it change who you are?


2 questions
1) is your God synonymous with Vishnu? i.e. is Vishnu ( or Thor or Jupiter or Zeus) God?
2) is are acts of obedience towards/belief to Vishnu ( or Thor or Jupiter or Zeus) the same acts of obedience towards/belief towards God?

When describing a cow, those viewing it from the mouth might say 'If produces interesting liquids and solids' probably referring to the saliva and food crumbs. Those from the side might even go as far as 'One can even pet it' probably referring to the sweat. Bot fresh and dried. Those viewing it from the anus (And no I'm not saying this is where you choose to be) might not find te oter two people to be very amusing! Same cow.

Conjecture. You choose to argue on semantics. But when viewed in totality, God is God. He is who He is.

I look at an Indian and I see myself. A man with nose, a skin and hair like me. Never mind the genetic differences. Same thing when I look at a European and/or Hispanic. I can then conclude that the God that created them, is the same God that created me. That is what matters


Is this god that created you the same one that created mosquitoes? Well Mukiri, let Mr. God know that those little suckers are killing people unabated to the tune of 3 million folks a year with over 80% of those being kids. For such a miraculous man, how could he not see this coming? He must have f***ed up when he created mosquitoes and now doesn't want to uncreate them coz he is evil. I guess he enjoys seeing kids die a painful death every day inflicted by his masterful creation which he so carefully designed and even decided to throw in a whistling ability for his beloved mosquitoes. What is the whistling for, to let you know that death is imminent? What a douchebag, who does that? Lol.

Oh. And what the f*** did he create snakes for too? Exactly what was he thinking? Was he like "today am going to create some ugly reptiles and fill them with enough venom to kill dozens of men with one bite, it's going to be awesome, high fives for everybody, the first round is on me tonight". Really? Later that evening when akina Abraham and Moses were having a drink at their local, they must have been like, "what the f*** was that long venomous thing that the old man just created? Did you see when he created that one that can stand on its belly and spit venom into people's eyes? Goodness gracious, I think that old fart has definitely lost his mind."

This god guy has a very diabolical mind. I don't think he is well upstairs, he might be a few fries short of a happy meal. Lol.

Funny man. Was all that, a cry of 'I don't want to die'?

hehehe.. Death is inevitable, my fren. Pass that on to the cow or goat you feast on next. Or the pesky mosquito you are talking about, when you swat it.

Most religious folk embrace death. Take for instance we Bible followers... It is written John 14:1-6 “Don’t let your hearts be troubled. Trust in God, and trust also in me. There is more than enough room in my Father’s home. If this were not so, would I have told you that I am going to prepare a place for you? When everything is ready, I will come and get you, so that you will always be with me where I am. And you know the way to where I am going.” “No, we don’t know, Lord,” Thomas said. “We have no idea where you are going, so how can we know the way?” Jesus told him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one can come to the Father except through me.

The Bible even goes as far as to say this in Matthew 16:25 'For whoever wants to save their life will lose it, but whoever loses their life for me will find it.'

Proverbs 19:21
hamburglar
#23 Posted : Saturday, December 16, 2017 10:53:58 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 12/17/2011
Posts: 807
Mukiri wrote:
hamburglar wrote:
Mukiri wrote:
masukuma wrote:
Mukiri wrote:
masukuma wrote:
T-Bag wrote:
Let people believe what their convictions are, in the fullness of time all will be revealed.
My Logic reasoning
1. God + believe = Heaven gain
2. No God + Believe = Loss for everyone
3. No God + No belief = Loss for everyone
4. God + No belief = Loss for those who don't believe.

Conclusion: I would rather believe on what does not exist than disbelief and find out i was wrong

Pascal's Wager? it's a pretty good thought process....
except when you realize 'God' is your 'God' and that title is not exactly some other person's 'God' - right?

now look outside yourself to someone in another belief system:
a Hindu in Nepal:
Logic reasoning
1. (Vishnu + Shiva + Brahmin) + believe = Nirvana gain
2. No (Vishnu + Shiva + Brahmin) + Believe = Loss for everyone
3. No (Vishnu + Shiva + Brahmin) + No belief = Loss for everyone
4. (Vishnu + Shiva + Brahmin) + No belief = Loss for those who don't believe.

To him - the Wager works - right? Let's match the best outcomes (1 and 4)

1) God + believe = (Vishnu + Shiva + Brahmin) + believe = Heaven gain
4) God + No belief = (Vishnu + Shiva + Brahmin) + No belief = Loss for those who don't believe.

so... we can deduce that God = (Vishnu + Shiva + Brahmin). we just picked 2 out of the around 4,200 CONFIDENT religions. how does that math play out?

My neighbor calls his God Mungu, the other Enkai while another Allah. Just like some will call you Ma-Kales, ma-thokoma etc does it change who you are?


2 questions
1) is your God synonymous with Vishnu? i.e. is Vishnu ( or Thor or Jupiter or Zeus) God?
2) is are acts of obedience towards/belief to Vishnu ( or Thor or Jupiter or Zeus) the same acts of obedience towards/belief towards God?

When describing a cow, those viewing it from the mouth might say 'If produces interesting liquids and solids' probably referring to the saliva and food crumbs. Those from the side might even go as far as 'One can even pet it' probably referring to the sweat. Bot fresh and dried. Those viewing it from the anus (And no I'm not saying this is where you choose to be) might not find te oter two people to be very amusing! Same cow.

Conjecture. You choose to argue on semantics. But when viewed in totality, God is God. He is who He is.

I look at an Indian and I see myself. A man with nose, a skin and hair like me. Never mind the genetic differences. Same thing when I look at a European and/or Hispanic. I can then conclude that the God that created them, is the same God that created me. That is what matters


Is this god that created you the same one that created mosquitoes? Well Mukiri, let Mr. God know that those little suckers are killing people unabated to the tune of 3 million folks a year with over 80% of those being kids. For such a miraculous man, how could he not see this coming? He must have f***ed up when he created mosquitoes and now doesn't want to uncreate them coz he is evil. I guess he enjoys seeing kids die a painful death every day inflicted by his masterful creation which he so carefully designed and even decided to throw in a whistling ability for his beloved mosquitoes. What is the whistling for, to let you know that death is imminent? What a douchebag, who does that? Lol.

Oh. And what the f*** did he create snakes for too? Exactly what was he thinking? Was he like "today am going to create some ugly reptiles and fill them with enough venom to kill dozens of men with one bite, it's going to be awesome, high fives for everybody, the first round is on me tonight". Really? Later that evening when akina Abraham and Moses were having a drink at their local, they must have been like, "what the f*** was that long venomous thing that the old man just created? Did you see when he created that one that can stand on its belly and spit venom into people's eyes? Goodness gracious, I think that old fart has definitely lost his mind."

This god guy has a very diabolical mind. I don't think he is well upstairs, he might be a few fries short of a happy meal. Lol.

Funny man. Was all that, a cry of 'I don't want to die'?

hehehe.. Death is inevitable, my fren. Pass that on to the cow or goat you feast on next. Or the pesky mosquito you are talking about, when you swat it.

Most religious folk embrace death. Take for instance we Bible followers... It is written John 14:1-6 “Don’t let your hearts be troubled. Trust in God, and trust also in me. There is more than enough room in my Father’s home. If this were not so, would I have told you that I am going to prepare a place for you? When everything is ready, I will come and get you, so that you will always be with me where I am. And you know the way to where I am going.” “No, we don’t know, Lord,” Thomas said. “We have no idea where you are going, so how can we know the way?” Jesus told him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one can come to the Father except through me.

The Bible even goes as far as to say this in Matthew 16:25 'For whoever wants to save their life will lose it, but whoever loses their life for me will find it.'


Huh? d'oh! d'oh!
harrydre
#24 Posted : Monday, April 23, 2018 6:09:23 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/10/2008
Posts: 8,904
Location: Kanjo
Can we say those who lived before Jesus was crucified are now living in the after life? I am thinking of kina Noah, Adam, Abraham....or are they still waiting for judgement day too?
Cameroon 2019 Ndani Ndaani Ndaaaani!
tycho
#25 Posted : Monday, April 23, 2018 7:12:06 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 7,911
Location: Nairobi
harrydre wrote:
Can we say those who lived before Jesus was crucified are now living in the after life? I am thinking of kina Noah, Adam, Abraham....or are they still waiting for judgement day too?


'Reality' is significance, and significance is a matter of a paradigm. Paradigms on the other hand have each their agendas.

So the answer to your question is that, it depends on your narrative and what you're doing with the narrative.

But among the various worlds, there exists by possibility, a world in which there's no death.
AlphDoti
#26 Posted : Monday, April 23, 2018 7:58:39 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/20/2008
Posts: 5,612
Location: Kenya
harrydre wrote:
Can we say those who lived before Jesus was crucified are now living in the after life? I am thinking of kina Noah, Adam, Abraham....or are they still waiting for judgement day too?

Everybody who died is living in the after life, whether before Jesus Christi or after Jesus Christ pbuh. In fact, all the Prophets and messengers are alive in their graves they are performing prayers and worshiping Allah (Almighty God), but we cannot see or feel them.

Anas ibn Malik r.a narrates that the Messenger of Allah (pbuh) said: “The Prophets are alive in their graves performing Salat”

Anas ibn Malik further narrates that: “On the night of Isra, the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) passed by the grave of Sayyiduna Musa (Allah bless him), and found him performing Salat in his grave” (Recorded by Imam Muslim in his Sahih hadiths).

Anas ibn Malik further narrates that the Messenger of Allah (pbuh) said: “The Prophets are not kept in their graves for more than forty nights, but they remain worshiping Allah until the trumpet will be blown”
AlphDoti
#27 Posted : Monday, April 23, 2018 8:06:47 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/20/2008
Posts: 5,612
Location: Kenya
There is something, a barrier called BARZAQ/BARZAK.

When a person dies, there's no turning back to this world (this life) again. There's another stage in between live and judgement day called "barzaq".

Quran 23:99-100: Until, when death comes to one of them (those who join partners with Allah, POLYTHEISTS), he says: "My Lord! Send me back, "So that I may do good in that which I have left behind!" No! It is but a word that he speaks, and behind them is Barzakh (a barrier) until the Day when they will be resurrected.

Drobos fly
#28 Posted : Tuesday, April 24, 2018 2:06:43 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 4/24/2012
Posts: 315
Location: Vantage point
It's interesting how man is just so full of vanity like the goal of this post. I really wonder what its purpose really is except the all to obvious chest thumping, head-knocking and claim "No you are wrong and my belief is right", coz that's all that's going on here. A pointless waste of each other's time. No one wants to change, but everyone wants others to change to their liking, that's what every comment is summarily saying..... utterly useless!

The fact of the matter is, none of you called yourself into existence so your own conceived knowledge is all but vanity.
otienosmall
#29 Posted : Tuesday, April 24, 2018 9:20:25 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 10/8/2010
Posts: 273
AlphDoti wrote:
There is something, a barrier called BARZAQ/BARZAK.

When a person dies, there's no turning back to this world (this life) again. There's another stage in between live and judgement day called "barzaq".

Quran 23:99-100: Until, when death comes to one of them (those who join partners with Allah, POLYTHEISTS), he says: "My Lord! Send me back, "So that I may do good in that which I have left behind!" No! It is but a word that he speaks, and behind them is Barzakh (a barrier) until the Day when they will be resurrected.




BARZAQ/BARZAK for those who profess the Catholic faith is same as Purgatory. The Doctrine of Purgatory #1030 (catechism of the Catholic church) states: All who die in God’s grace and friendship, but still imperfectly purified, are indeed assured of their eternal salvation, but after death they undergo purification, so as to achieve the holiness necessary to enter the joy of heaven. This is itself false man-made doctrine not based on biblical teaching.

But why do the Muslims have it? The truth of the matter is Muslim and Catholic are one and the same. Vatican/Roman Catholicism the great counterfeit religion also called 'Mystery, Babylon the Great’ (Revelation 17:5) created Islam.

These religions have many things in common. Key among them is each has a holy place where they look for guidance. Roman Catholicism looks to the Vatican as the Holy City. The Muslims look to Mecca as their Holy City. Each group believes that they receive certain types of blessings for the rest of their lives for visiting their holy place. These are "holy" shrines in which the believers are taught to look to as their headquarters

http://www.redicecreatio...4apr/catholicislam.html


The two shares very many other doctrines/similarities e.g. the crescent moon symbols, the star (these two adapted from the ancient worship of the Sun god), the rosary, the two believes that only they are the one true church/religion. require mandatory fasting.

(Some borrowed material)

The Roman Catholic Church worships, prays to and gives titles of God to Mary. Islam highly esteems Mary/Maryam and she is mentioned 34 times in the Qu'ran.

The Roman Catholic Church and Islam base their salvation on a complicated system of works and deny salvation by faith alone. There is no assurance of salvation in either religion. Both cults deny the Biblical view of the Atonement. The Roman Catholic Church doctrine dictates that one must go to Purgatory to have his sins purged, Jesus just paved the way. The Muslims believe their works will save them but will not know until Judgment Day. This is because there is no atonement for sin, and God's grace does not exist.

The Roman Catholic Church claims visions and apparitions in an effort to add false doctrine. Muhammad claimed to be purified as a child by angels. He claimed to receive revelations from Archangel Gabriel.

The Roman Catholic Church uses a rosary for their prayers, Islam uses prayer beads. The rosary/prayer beads are concepts taken from paganism.

The Pope is the vicar or substitute of Christ for the Roman Catholic Church. In Islam, Muhammad is called the last and final Messenger of God, the successor to Jesus.
The Roman Catholic Church and Islam have their own divorce system. The Roman Catholic Church grants annulments and Islam allows a man to divorce his wife by telling her she is divorced.

Both cults believe that leaving their church will result in eternal damnation.

The Roman Catholic Church and the Islam base some of their doctrine on pagan traditions. For the Roman Catholic Church the traditions of a goddess, rosary, pope, relics, purgatory, transubstantiation, praying to dead people, and idol worship are all based on paganism.

The Roman Catholic Church and Islam have added books to support false doctrine. The Roman Catholic Church has added the Apocrypha and Islam the Qu'ran.

The Roman Catholic Church priest system (including Popes) has a history of sexual abuse of women and children. Islam has a history of (including Muhammad) sexual abuse of women and children.

Both religions believe in using FORCE to spread their version of the one true god to the unbelievers.

Both religions believe in a union with the state or of using the police powers of the state to compel obedience to their tenets. Try preaching Christianity in Mecca and you will face the wrath of the government.
quicksand
#30 Posted : Tuesday, April 24, 2018 11:24:03 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 7/5/2010
Posts: 1,993
Location: Nairobi
otienosmall wrote:
AlphDoti wrote:
There is something, a barrier called BARZAQ/BARZAK.

When a person dies, there's no turning back to this world (this life) again. There's another stage in between live and judgement day called "barzaq".

Quran 23:99-100: Until, when death comes to one of them (those who join partners with Allah, POLYTHEISTS), he says: "My Lord! Send me back, "So that I may do good in that which I have left behind!" No! It is but a word that he speaks, and behind them is Barzakh (a barrier) until the Day when they will be resurrected.




BARZAQ/BARZAK for those who profess the Catholic faith is same as Purgatory. The Doctrine of Purgatory #1030 (catechism of the Catholic church) states: All who die in God’s grace and friendship, but still imperfectly purified, are indeed assured of their eternal salvation, but after death they undergo purification, so as to achieve the holiness necessary to enter the joy of heaven. This is itself false man-made doctrine not based on biblical teaching.

But why do the Muslims have it? The truth of the matter is Muslim and Catholic are one and the same. Vatican/Roman Catholicism the great counterfeit religion also called 'Mystery, Babylon the Great’ (Revelation 17:5) created Islam.

These religions have many things in common. Key among them is each has a holy place where they look for guidance. Roman Catholicism looks to the Vatican as the Holy City. The Muslims look to Mecca as their Holy City. Each group believes that they receive certain types of blessings for the rest of their lives for visiting their holy place. These are "holy" shrines in which the believers are taught to look to as their headquarters

http://www.redicecreatio...4apr/catholicislam.html


The two shares very many other doctrines/similarities e.g. the crescent moon symbols, the star (these two adapted from the ancient worship of the Sun god), the rosary, the two believes that only they are the one true church/religion. require mandatory fasting.

(Some borrowed material)

The Roman Catholic Church worships, prays to and gives titles of God to Mary. Islam highly esteems Mary/Maryam and she is mentioned 34 times in the Qu'ran.

The Roman Catholic Church and Islam base their salvation on a complicated system of works and deny salvation by faith alone. There is no assurance of salvation in either religion. Both cults deny the Biblical view of the Atonement. The Roman Catholic Church doctrine dictates that one must go to Purgatory to have his sins purged, Jesus just paved the way. The Muslims believe their works will save them but will not know until Judgment Day. This is because there is no atonement for sin, and God's grace does not exist.

The Roman Catholic Church claims visions and apparitions in an effort to add false doctrine. Muhammad claimed to be purified as a child by angels. He claimed to receive revelations from Archangel Gabriel.

The Roman Catholic Church uses a rosary for their prayers, Islam uses prayer beads. The rosary/prayer beads are concepts taken from paganism.

The Pope is the vicar or substitute of Christ for the Roman Catholic Church. In Islam, Muhammad is called the last and final Messenger of God, the successor to Jesus.
The Roman Catholic Church and Islam have their own divorce system. The Roman Catholic Church grants annulments and Islam allows a man to divorce his wife by telling her she is divorced.

Both cults believe that leaving their church will result in eternal damnation.

The Roman Catholic Church and the Islam base some of their doctrine on pagan traditions. For the Roman Catholic Church the traditions of a goddess, rosary, pope, relics, purgatory, transubstantiation, praying to dead people, and idol worship are all based on paganism.

The Roman Catholic Church and Islam have added books to support false doctrine. The Roman Catholic Church has added the Apocrypha and Islam the Qu'ran.

The Roman Catholic Church priest system (including Popes) has a history of sexual abuse of women and children. Islam has a history of (including Muhammad) sexual abuse of women and children.

Both religions believe in using FORCE to spread their version of the one true god to the unbelievers.

Both religions believe in a union with the state or of using the police powers of the state to compel obedience to their tenets. Try preaching Christianity in Mecca and you will face the wrath of the government.



BAAAAAAAAS .....wewe kwisaaaa!!
AlphDoti is mixing colours for you Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly ...ile reply itashuka hapa will rival Encyclopedia Britannica in matters length ....
AlphDoti
#31 Posted : Tuesday, April 24, 2018 3:25:23 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/20/2008
Posts: 5,612
Location: Kenya
quicksand wrote:
BAAAAAAAAS .....wewe kwisaaaa!!
AlphDoti is mixing colours for you Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly ...ile reply itashuka hapa will rival Encyclopedia Britannica in matters length ....

Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly @quicksand in fact my tablet amekataa saying "Unknown colours... try again"!
Angelica _ann
#32 Posted : Tuesday, April 24, 2018 3:37:58 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/7/2012
Posts: 9,369
AlphDoti wrote:
quicksand wrote:
BAAAAAAAAS .....wewe kwisaaaa!!
AlphDoti is mixing colours for you Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly ...ile reply itashuka hapa will rival Encyclopedia Britannica in matters length ....

Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly @quicksand in fact my tablet amekataa saying "Unknown colours... try again"!


smile smile smile Been long those colours
In the business world, everyone is paid in two coins - cash and experience. Take the experience first; the cash will come later - H Geneen
AlphDoti
#33 Posted : Tuesday, April 24, 2018 8:20:00 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/20/2008
Posts: 5,612
Location: Kenya
otienosmall wrote:
AlphDoti wrote:
There is something, a barrier called BARZAQ/BARZAK.

When a person dies, there's no turning back to this world (this life) again. There's another stage in between live and judgement day called "barzaq".

BARZAQ/BARZAK for those who profess the Catholic faith is same as Purgatory. The Doctrine of Purgatory #1030 (catechism of the Catholic church) states: All who die in God’s grace and friendship, but still imperfectly purified, are indeed assured of their eternal salvation, but after death they undergo purification, so as to achieve the holiness necessary to enter the joy of heaven. This is itself false man-made doctrine not based on biblical teaching.

1. Issue one
@otieno, can you share Biblical teaching on what happens after death?

We will handle all the other allegations you have made, one by one... come baby come!
AlphDoti
#34 Posted : Tuesday, April 24, 2018 8:57:59 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/20/2008
Posts: 5,612
Location: Kenya
otienosmall wrote:
These religions have many things in common. Key among them is each has a holy place where they look for guidance. Roman Catholicism looks to the Vatican as the Holy City. The Muslims look to Mecca as their Holy City. Each group believes that they receive certain types of blessings for the rest of their lives for visiting their holy place. These are "holy" shrines in which the believers are taught to look to as their headquarters


2. Issue two: Where worshipers turn at prayer.
If you know your Bible, you would know that the direction that of worship was initially Jerusalem, that's where the Jews faced. Then a verse came down specifying that direction is Makkah, where Ibrahim built first house of God. Jesus tells the people a day will come when they will not worship in Jerusalem. John 4:21: Yesu akamjibu, "Mwanamke, niamini, wakati unakuja ambapo hamtamwabudu Baba katika mlima huu, wala huko Yerusalemu."

God in the Bible will choose place, makao yake, you'll face there. You must visit there.
Deuteronomy 12:5: But unto the place which the Lord your God shall choose out of all your tribes to put his name there, even unto his habitation shall ye seek, and thither thou shalt come:

God calls it "The house of God" in Genesis 22:2

(a). Deut 12 mentions the place of pilgrimage along with some indications of what is included in its festival.

(b). Deut 12:5,11,14,18,and 21 The place is `the place which the Lord your God shall choose'

(c). Deut 12:21 states that if the place of pilgrimage is too far away, the sacrifice may be performed at home

(d). Deut 12:5 - God will choose place, makao yake, you'll face there. You must visit there.

(e). John 4:21 - Yesu akamjibu, "..wakati unakuja ambapo hamtamwabudu Baba katika mlima huu, wala huko Yerusalemu. Lakini saa yaja, tena ipo, ambapo wale waabuduo halisi, watamwabudu Baba katika roho na kweli. Watu wanaoabudu namna hii, ndio Baba anawatafuta.
Matthew 23:37 - Yesu Aililia Yerusalemu "Ee Yerusalemu, mnaowaua manabii na kuwapiga mawe wale waliotumwa kwenu! ... Amebarikiwa Yeye ajaye kwa Jina la Bwana."

(f). Genesis 22:2 - House of God

(g). 1 Chronicles 3:2 - When Solomon built, he called it 'House of God'

(h). Matt 21:12 what did Jesus call this house himself? He told them God said "House of God"

(i). Isaiah 2:2 - end of time, people will go to house of God will be put upright and all nations will go there

What this tells me is that you are not aware of the above requirement as per your own Bible, are you?
harrydre
#35 Posted : Tuesday, April 24, 2018 9:18:29 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/10/2008
Posts: 8,904
Location: Kanjo
AlphDoti wrote:
There is something, a barrier called BARZAQ/BARZAK.

When a person dies, there's no turning back to this world (this life) again. There's another stage in between live and judgement day called "barzaq".

Quran 23:99-100: Until, when death comes to one of them (those who join partners with Allah, POLYTHEISTS), he says: "My Lord! Send me back, "So that I may do good in that which I have left behind!" No! It is but a word that he speaks, and behind them is Barzakh (a barrier) until the Day when they will be resurrected.



interesting..so at this 'Barzaq' state, are they aware of their prior life? Do they connect with those who left before them? Are they 'watching over' those they left behind?
Cameroon 2019 Ndani Ndaani Ndaaaani!
masukuma
#36 Posted : Tuesday, April 24, 2018 10:20:02 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 12,845
Location: Nairobi
harrydre wrote:
AlphDoti wrote:
There is something, a barrier called BARZAQ/BARZAK.

When a person dies, there's no turning back to this world (this life) again. There's another stage in between live and judgement day called "barzaq".

Quran 23:99-100: Until, when death comes to one of them (those who join partners with Allah, POLYTHEISTS), he says: "My Lord! Send me back, "So that I may do good in that which I have left behind!" No! It is but a word that he speaks, and behind them is Barzakh (a barrier) until the Day when they will be resurrected.



interesting..so at this 'Barzaq' state, are they aware of their prior life? Do they connect with those who left before them? Are they 'watching over' those they left behind?

Where are people before they are born? why don't we remember that? if we don't remember - why remember after Barzaq?
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
AlphDoti
#37 Posted : Wednesday, April 25, 2018 3:08:26 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/20/2008
Posts: 5,612
Location: Kenya
masukuma wrote:
harrydre wrote:
AlphDoti wrote:
There is something, a barrier called BARZAQ/BARZAK.

When a person dies, there's no turning back to this world (this life) again. There's another stage in between live and judgement day called "barzaq".

interesting..so at this 'Barzaq' state, are they aware of their prior life? Do they connect with those who left before them? Are they 'watching over' those they left behind?

Where are people before they are born? why don't we remember that? if we don't remember - why remember after Barzaq?

Hey, hey @masukuma and @harrydre! It is not a state! Read my post properly... BARZAQ/BARZAK is a barrier between this life and the next after you die, that keeps the live people apart from the dead people. It is not a state...

Still, I'll answer your two questions above...
AlphDoti
#38 Posted : Wednesday, April 25, 2018 3:27:33 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/20/2008
Posts: 5,612
Location: Kenya
AlphDoti wrote:
masukuma wrote:
harrydre wrote:
AlphDoti wrote:
There is something, a barrier called BARZAQ/BARZAK.

When a person dies, there's no turning back to this world (this life) again. There's another stage in between live and judgement day called "barzaq".

interesting..so at this 'Barzaq' state, are they aware of their prior life? Do they connect with those who left before them? Are they 'watching over' those they left behind?

Where are people before they are born? why don't we remember that? if we don't remember - why remember after Barzaq?

Hey, hey @masukuma and @harrydre! It is not a state! Read my post properly... BARZAQ/BARZAK is a barrier between this life and the next after you die, that keeps the live people apart from the dead people. It is not a state...

Still, I'll answer your two questions above...

Question 1: <@masukuma> Where are the people before they are born?

All the souls were created at the beginning. Look at this surah in the Quran:

Indeed, we offered the Trust to the heavens and the earth and the mountains, and they declined to bear it and feared it; but man [undertook to] bear it. Indeed, he was unjust and ignorant. Quran (Surah Al-`Ahzab 33:72)

The Tafseer (Explanation) of the verse by Ibn-Kathir:

Al-`Awfi reported that Ibn Abbas said, Al-Amanah means obedience. This was offered to them before it was offered to Adam, and they could not bear it. Then Allah said to Adam: I have offered the Amanah to the heavens and the earth and the mountains, and they could not bear it. Will you take it on! He said, O Lord, what does it involve! He said, If you do good, you will be rewarded, and if you do evil, you will be punished. So Adam took the Amanah (responsibility) and bore it, and this is what is referred to in the Ayah.

Everyone testified to Allah after the souls were created, before birth. Look at this verse from the Quran 7:172: And [mention] when your Lord took from the children of Adam - from their loins - their descendants and made them testify of themselves, [saying to them], "Am I not your Lord?" They said, "Yes, we have testified." [This] - lest you should say on the day of Resurrection, "Indeed, we were of this unaware."

You may ask how did we speak! God knows how. Remember angels are in spirit form and they communicate... so before they are born, people are in spirit form, the soul.
AlphDoti
#39 Posted : Wednesday, April 25, 2018 3:51:46 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/20/2008
Posts: 5,612
Location: Kenya
Question 2: <@masukuma> Why don't we remember that? if we don't remember - why remember after death?

We will remember the life of this world after we die. There is evidence in Quran where Allah tells us: "And some of them draw near to others, questioning, saying: ‘Aforetime, we were afraid with our families (of the punishment of Allaah). But Allaah has been gracious to us, and has saved us from the torment of the Fire. Verily, we used to invoke Him (Alone) before. Verily, He is the Most Kind, the Most Merciful." [Quran al-Tur 52:25-28]

We will also remember what people who tried to make us do. Allah says: "Then they will turn to one another, mutually questioning. A speaker of them will say, ‘Verily, I had a companion (in the world), who used to say, "Are you among those who believe (in resurrection after death), (that) when we die and become dust and bones, shall we indeed (be raised up) to receive reward or punishment (according to our deeds)?" [Quran al-Saffaat 37:50-53]
AlphDoti
#40 Posted : Wednesday, April 25, 2018 4:24:30 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/20/2008
Posts: 5,612
Location: Kenya

Question 3: <harrydre> Do they connect with those who left before them?

Yes, the souls of the believers meet and visit one another. Look at this hadith narrated from Abu Ayyoob al-Ansaari and Abu Haatim in al-Saheeh, they reported that the Prophet (pbuh) said: “When his soul is taken up it is met by the souls who ask him about the living and they say to one another: ‘Let him rest.’ And they say: ‘What happened to So and so?’ And he says: ‘He did a righteous deed.’ They say: ‘What happened to So and so?’ and he says: ‘Has he not come to you?’ They say: ‘No.’ They say: ‘He was taken to the Pit (of Hell).’”

Therefore, the dead visit one another. But there are two types: those that are punished and those that are blessed. Those that are punished are too preoccupied with the torment that they are facing to visit and meet one another, but the souls that are blessed are free and are not detained, so they meet one another, visit one another and talk about what they used to do in this world and what happened to the people of this world.

Question 4: <harrydre> Are they 'watching over' those they left behind?

The answer is no! Remember I stated that there is something, a barrier called BARZAQ/BARZAK. When a person dies, there's no turning back to this world (this life) again. There's another stage in between live and judgement day called "barzaq". The dead cannot make contact with the dead. Neither do the alive make contact with the dead. There is a barrier between them called barzaq
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