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Cytonn Investments
quicksand
#781 Posted : Tuesday, May 05, 2020 9:07:12 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 7/5/2010
Posts: 2,031
Location: Nairobi
wukan wrote:


Rarely does old money move from one fund manager to another. It's very conservative sticking to the old and tested ways. Safcom will have to build their own clientele base among the millennials. It takes time to build credibility in the investment world.



Welcome to disruption. These sentiments were rampant in banking circles at the infancy of Mpesa..when it started heating up, bankster CEOs ran to the CBK governor to whine,....Equity tried a fast one during its first partnership with Safcom where they would attempt to pull customers over to its agency business side.
It all backfired and banks were steamrolled.
It is time fund managers put on their thinking hats and quick, because the reason whole fund and money management business is stodgy and stagnant is this same, tired reasoning. These guys think people who don't wear suits and can't talk indexes while sticking their noses in the air in snobbishness are not worth chasing as customers. The jackboot is coming and the kick will be so hard they will think the ass has moved into the lungs.
Angelica _ann
#782 Posted : Tuesday, May 05, 2020 9:12:46 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/7/2012
Posts: 11,600
quicksand wrote:
wukan wrote:


Rarely does old money move from one fund manager to another. It's very conservative sticking to the old and tested ways. Safcom will have to build their own clientele base among the millennials. It takes time to build credibility in the investment world.



Welcome to disruption. These sentiments were rampant in banking circles at the infancy of Mpesa..when it started heating up, bankster CEOs ran to the CBK governor to whine,....Equity tried a fast one during its first partnership with Safcom where they would attempt to pull customers over to its agency business side.
It all backfired and banks were steamrolled.
It is time fund managers put on their thinking hats and quick, because the reason whole fund and money management business is stodgy and stagnant is this same, tired reasoning. These guys think people who don't wear suits and can't talk indexes while sticking their noses in the air in snobbishness are not worth chasing as customers. The jackboot is coming and the kick will be so hard they will think the ass has moved into the lungs.


Old money is also changing hand from one generation to another in Kenya who hold different investment views. Plus enhanced globalization and innovation disruption.
In the business world, everyone is paid in two coins - cash and experience. Take the experience first; the cash will come later - H Geneen
wukan
#783 Posted : Tuesday, May 05, 2020 9:50:24 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 11/13/2015
Posts: 1,408
Angelica _ann wrote:
quicksand wrote:
wukan wrote:


Rarely does old money move from one fund manager to another. It's very conservative sticking to the old and tested ways. Safcom will have to build their own clientele base among the millennials. It takes time to build credibility in the investment world.



Welcome to disruption. These sentiments were rampant in banking circles at the infancy of Mpesa..when it started heating up, bankster CEOs ran to the CBK governor to whine,....Equity tried a fast one during its first partnership with Safcom where they would attempt to pull customers over to its agency business side.
It all backfired and banks were steamrolled.
It is time fund managers put on their thinking hats and quick, because the reason whole fund and money management business is stodgy and stagnant is this same, tired reasoning. These guys think people who don't wear suits and can't talk indexes while sticking their noses in the air in snobbishness are not worth chasing as customers. The jackboot is coming and the kick will be so hard they will think the ass has moved into the lungs.


Old money is also changing hand from one generation to another in Kenya who hold different investment views. Plus enhanced globalization and innovation disruption.


Really!! You wish. There is really no disruption here. Most fund managers have the mpesa feature to deposit funds.

Quote:
Clients of asset manager Stanlib Kenya have withdrawn Sh75 billion ahead of the buyout by rival ICEA Lion Asset Management.

The outflows, representing over half Stanlib assets under management (AUM), have been disclosed by the company’s parent company Liberty Holdings of South Africa.

The multinational says in a trading update that Stanlib’s “discontinued mandates” stood at R11.1 billion (Sh75 billion) as of December 31, 2019.
https://www.businessdail...0026-p9380iz/index.html

rwitre
#784 Posted : Tuesday, May 05, 2020 10:29:22 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 3/8/2018
Posts: 433
Location: Nairobi
wukan wrote:
Angelica _ann wrote:
quicksand wrote:
wukan wrote:


Rarely does old money move from one fund manager to another. It's very conservative sticking to the old and tested ways. Safcom will have to build their own clientele base among the millennials. It takes time to build credibility in the investment world.



Welcome to disruption. These sentiments were rampant in banking circles at the infancy of Mpesa..when it started heating up, bankster CEOs ran to the CBK governor to whine,....Equity tried a fast one during its first partnership with Safcom where they would attempt to pull customers over to its agency business side.
It all backfired and banks were steamrolled.
It is time fund managers put on their thinking hats and quick, because the reason whole fund and money management business is stodgy and stagnant is this same, tired reasoning. These guys think people who don't wear suits and can't talk indexes while sticking their noses in the air in snobbishness are not worth chasing as customers. The jackboot is coming and the kick will be so hard they will think the ass has moved into the lungs.


Old money is also changing hand from one generation to another in Kenya who hold different investment views. Plus enhanced globalization and innovation disruption.


Really!! You wish. There is really no disruption here. Most fund managers have the mpesa feature to deposit funds.

Quote:
Clients of asset manager Stanlib Kenya have withdrawn Sh75 billion ahead of the buyout by rival ICEA Lion Asset Management.

The outflows, representing over half Stanlib assets under management (AUM), have been disclosed by the company’s parent company Liberty Holdings of South Africa.

The multinational says in a trading update that Stanlib’s “discontinued mandates” stood at R11.1 billion (Sh75 billion) as of December 31, 2019.
https://www.businessdail...0026-p9380iz/index.html



Quarterly Statistical Bulletin market analysis for the period covering the third and fourth quarters of 2019, done by CMA:




Top 5 are pulling double digit growths. Cytonn and Zimele offering high rates and ease of access, Sanlam and Britam making heavy investments in digital products to target young market.
Meanwhile the old timers ICEA, Stanlib, Madison are barely making change. Old Mutual, Equity and Coop saw reductions.

Tide is changing. While the heavyweights still control a huge portion of the market, if they keep getting comfortable they will continue losing marketshare.

Full Report: The CMA Quarterly Capital Markets Statistical Bulletin
tony stark
#785 Posted : Tuesday, May 05, 2020 11:31:27 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 7/8/2008
Posts: 859
tony stark wrote:
Angelica _ann wrote:
Rollout wrote:
Even educated investor will struggle to remember which product is regulated and which product is not regulated.

-- Cytonn High Yield Solution (CHYS)
-- Cytonn High Yield Fund (CHYF)

At best, Cytonn did a terrible job making sure their investors understand what they were investing in. At worst, Cytonn intentionally wanted to confuse their investors.



It was obviously this one, prey on the massess' innocence and limited investment knowledge/exposure.


I have invested in the cyton high yield solution and have gotten my money out with no problem or hustle. I then reinvested again and I am still expecting to get my money with no hustle. Will know by September if I get my money.

But the experience clear. They informed me several times through the agent that this is an unregulated product and they try to sell you to the regulated product. You even sign that you know he risk. Wouldn't say they tried to hide anything.

Do i know their investment strategy that will yield 18% in these ridiculous times. NO!

Do I expect to get 18% interest ..... YES!


These are the kind of messages I need from my fund manager

"Dear Esteemed Client, Following the assent of the Tax Amendment Bill 2020, CHYS & CPN investors will now enjoy a final tax rate of 15% on their returns, instead of the previous 30%. This is more reason to further your investment in CHYS & CPN. CMMF & CHYF will continue as before with a 15% final tax on the interest"

Let me collect my 18% +covid tax relief yangu.
Aluta continua!
tony stark
#786 Posted : Tuesday, May 05, 2020 11:36:02 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 7/8/2008
Posts: 859
rwitre wrote:
wukan wrote:
Angelica _ann wrote:
quicksand wrote:
wukan wrote:


Rarely does old money move from one fund manager to another. It's very conservative sticking to the old and tested ways. Safcom will have to build their own clientele base among the millennials. It takes time to build credibility in the investment world.



Welcome to disruption. These sentiments were rampant in banking circles at the infancy of Mpesa..when it started heating up, bankster CEOs ran to the CBK governor to whine,....Equity tried a fast one during its first partnership with Safcom where they would attempt to pull customers over to its agency business side.
It all backfired and banks were steamrolled.
It is time fund managers put on their thinking hats and quick, because the reason whole fund and money management business is stodgy and stagnant is this same, tired reasoning. These guys think people who don't wear suits and can't talk indexes while sticking their noses in the air in snobbishness are not worth chasing as customers. The jackboot is coming and the kick will be so hard they will think the ass has moved into the lungs.


Old money is also changing hand from one generation to another in Kenya who hold different investment views. Plus enhanced globalization and innovation disruption.


Really!! You wish. There is really no disruption here. Most fund managers have the mpesa feature to deposit funds.

Quote:
Clients of asset manager Stanlib Kenya have withdrawn Sh75 billion ahead of the buyout by rival ICEA Lion Asset Management.

The outflows, representing over half Stanlib assets under management (AUM), have been disclosed by the company’s parent company Liberty Holdings of South Africa.

The multinational says in a trading update that Stanlib’s “discontinued mandates” stood at R11.1 billion (Sh75 billion) as of December 31, 2019.
https://www.businessdail...0026-p9380iz/index.html



Quarterly Statistical Bulletin market analysis for the period covering the third and fourth quarters of 2019, done by CMA:




Top 5 are pulling double digit growths. Cytonn and Zimele offering high rates and ease of access, Sanlam and Britam making heavy investments in digital products to target young market.
Meanwhile the old timers ICEA, Stanlib, Madison are barely making change. Old Mutual, Equity and Coop saw reductions.

Tide is changing. While the heavyweights still control a huge portion of the market, if they keep getting comfortable they will continue losing marketshare.

Full Report: The CMA Quarterly Capital Markets Statistical Bulletin


I totally agree, I don't think old money will change. MPESA platform doesn't make it an obvious winner. Investment is a hard sell to the current investors and unless safaricom grows a totally new market they will struggle penetrating into the current investment culture by simply offering mpesa platform.

quicksand
#787 Posted : Wednesday, May 06, 2020 11:09:56 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 7/5/2010
Posts: 2,031
Location: Nairobi
wukan wrote:
Angelica _ann wrote:
quicksand wrote:
wukan wrote:


Rarely does old money move from one fund manager to another. It's very conservative sticking to the old and tested ways. Safcom will have to build their own clientele base among the millennials. It takes time to build credibility in the investment world.



Welcome to disruption. These sentiments were rampant in banking circles at the infancy of Mpesa..when it started heating up, bankster CEOs ran to the CBK governor to whine,....Equity tried a fast one during its first partnership with Safcom where they would attempt to pull customers over to its agency business side.
It all backfired and banks were steamrolled.
It is time fund managers put on their thinking hats and quick, because the reason whole fund and money management business is stodgy and stagnant is this same, tired reasoning. These guys think people who don't wear suits and can't talk indexes while sticking their noses in the air in snobbishness are not worth chasing as customers. The jackboot is coming and the kick will be so hard they will think the ass has moved into the lungs.


Old money is also changing hand from one generation to another in Kenya who hold different investment views. Plus enhanced globalization and innovation disruption.



Really!! You wish. There is really no disruption here. Most fund managers have the mpesa feature to deposit funds.


Quote:
Clients of asset manager Stanlib Kenya have withdrawn Sh75 billion ahead of the buyout by rival ICEA Lion Asset Management.

The outflows, representing over half Stanlib assets under management (AUM), have been disclosed by the company’s parent company Liberty Holdings of South Africa.

The multinational says in a trading update that Stanlib’s “discontinued mandates” stood at R11.1 billion (Sh75 billion) as of December 31, 2019.
https://www.businessdail...0026-p9380iz/index.html



You are only seeing Mpesa as a funnel in and out for money. You are not seeing the strategic, marketing and operations jaggernaut that is Safaricom.
Saf will launch a blitz that will say, We are Safaricom, we just made 60 billion. Invest with us .
Nothing more really needs to be said...they will be up against a guy in a suit from Fancyname Asset Managers with a brochure with colourful graphs and tables full of figures.
No contest.
They will hoover up sizeable chunks of money....and some of that money will leave existing funds to join this new one.
People have eyes but they don't see. Kaa hapo tu ukifikiria this industry will be the same as it was.
aemathenge
#788 Posted : Wednesday, May 06, 2020 12:21:56 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/18/2008
Posts: 3,297
Location: Kerugoya
quicksand wrote:
You are only seeing Mpesa as a funnel in and out for money.

You are not seeing the strategic, marketing, and operations juggernaut that is Safaricom.

Saf will launch a blitz that will say, We are Safaricom, we just made 60 billion. Invest with us .

Nothing more really needs to be said...they will be up against a guy in a suit from Fancyname Asset Managers with a brochure with colourful graphs and tables full of figures.

No contest.

They (Safaricom) will hoover up sizeable chunks of money....and some of that money will leave existing funds to join this new one.

People have eyes but they don't see.

Kaa hapo tu ukifikiria this industry will be the same as it was.


My sentiments, precisely.

Which brings us back to the question most pertinent to THIS thread:

Should Cytonn (whichever arm) be worried?
Rollout
#789 Posted : Wednesday, May 06, 2020 2:35:53 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 4/26/2011
Posts: 732
quicksand wrote:
wukan wrote:
Angelica _ann wrote:
quicksand wrote:
wukan wrote:


Rarely does old money move from one fund manager to another. It's very conservative sticking to the old and tested ways. Safcom will have to build their own clientele base among the millennials. It takes time to build credibility in the investment world.



Welcome to disruption. These sentiments were rampant in banking circles at the infancy of Mpesa..when it started heating up, bankster CEOs ran to the CBK governor to whine,....Equity tried a fast one during its first partnership with Safcom where they would attempt to pull customers over to its agency business side.
It all backfired and banks were steamrolled.
It is time fund managers put on their thinking hats and quick, because the reason whole fund and money management business is stodgy and stagnant is this same, tired reasoning. These guys think people who don't wear suits and can't talk indexes while sticking their noses in the air in snobbishness are not worth chasing as customers. The jackboot is coming and the kick will be so hard they will think the ass has moved into the lungs.


Agree, being backed by assets and full faith of a company like Safaricom is no joke. Consumers will choose Safaricom entity any day, all day. Even Edwin will choose Safaricom over Cytonn.

Old money is also changing hand from one generation to another in Kenya who hold different investment views. Plus enhanced globalization and innovation disruption.



Really!! You wish. There is really no disruption here. Most fund managers have the mpesa feature to deposit funds.


Quote:
Clients of asset manager Stanlib Kenya have withdrawn Sh75 billion ahead of the buyout by rival ICEA Lion Asset Management.

The outflows, representing over half Stanlib assets under management (AUM), have been disclosed by the company’s parent company Liberty Holdings of South Africa.

The multinational says in a trading update that Stanlib’s “discontinued mandates” stood at R11.1 billion (Sh75 billion) as of December 31, 2019.
https://www.businessdail...0026-p9380iz/index.html



You are only seeing Mpesa as a funnel in and out for money. You are not seeing the strategic, marketing and operations jaggernaut that is Safaricom.
Saf will launch a blitz that will say, We are Safaricom, we just made 60 billion. Invest with us .
Nothing more really needs to be said...they will be up against a guy in a suit from Fancyname Asset Managers with a brochure with colourful graphs and tables full of figures.
No contest.
They will hoover up sizeable chunks of money....and some of that money will leave existing funds to join this new one.
People have eyes but they don't see. Kaa hapo tu ukifikiria this industry will be the same as it was.

tony stark
#790 Posted : Thursday, May 07, 2020 6:55:19 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 7/8/2008
Posts: 859
aemathenge wrote:
quicksand wrote:
You are only seeing Mpesa as a funnel in and out for money.

You are not seeing the strategic, marketing, and operations juggernaut that is Safaricom.

Saf will launch a blitz that will say, We are Safaricom, we just made 60 billion. Invest with us .

Nothing more really needs to be said...they will be up against a guy in a suit from Fancyname Asset Managers with a brochure with colourful graphs and tables full of figures.

No contest.

They (Safaricom) will hoover up sizeable chunks of money....and some of that money will leave existing funds to join this new one.

People have eyes but they don't see.

Kaa hapo tu ukifikiria this industry will be the same as it was.


My sentiments, precisely.

Which brings us back to the question most pertinent to THIS thread:

Should Cytonn (whichever arm) be worried?


I don't think so.
Other than marketing to people who don't invest safaricom has so many disadvantages.
1. Paying brokerage fees
2. Lack of financial investment strategies
3. Add their marketing blitz and that's an added cost reducing their margins and I am not sure this will yield high quality clients.
4. There is no clear value add in using safaricom over using another investment firm unless you are buying a communication solution.

This idea of Safaricom being infallible is totally false. Here is a short list of failed projects
Safaricom call a doc- fail
Safaricoms little cabs - another failure
Safaricoms blaze another stupid and failing idea
Do you remember Vuma online for mathrees.

Waaah. Safaricom has so many jokers they can lose so much money and still make a profit. This will probably be another failed project.

tom_boy
#791 Posted : Thursday, May 07, 2020 8:19:57 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 2/20/2007
Posts: 756
tony stark wrote:
aemathenge wrote:
quicksand wrote:
You are only seeing Mpesa as a funnel in and out for money.

You are not seeing the strategic, marketing, and operations juggernaut that is Safaricom.

Saf will launch a blitz that will say, We are Safaricom, we just made 60 billion. Invest with us .

Nothing more really needs to be said...they will be up against a guy in a suit from Fancyname Asset Managers with a brochure with colourful graphs and tables full of figures.

No contest.

They (Safaricom) will hoover up sizeable chunks of money....and some of that money will leave existing funds to join this new one.

People have eyes but they don't see.

Kaa hapo tu ukifikiria this industry will be the same as it was.


My sentiments, precisely.

Which brings us back to the question most pertinent to THIS thread:

Should Cytonn (whichever arm) be worried?


I don't think so.
Other than marketing to people who don't invest safaricom has so many disadvantages.
1. Paying brokerage fees
2. Lack of financial investment strategies
3. Add their marketing blitz and that's an added cost reducing their margins and I am not sure this will yield high quality clients.
4. There is no clear value add in using safaricom over using another investment firm unless you are buying a communication solution.

This idea of Safaricom being infallible is totally false. Here is a short list of failed projects
Safaricom call a doc- fail
Safaricoms little cabs - another failure
Safaricoms blaze another stupid and failing idea
Do you remember Vuma online for mathrees.

Waaah. Safaricom has so many jokers they can lose so much money and still make a profit. This will probably be another failed project.



The way I see it, a real game changer for Safaricom would be if they get a banking license. That way they get to keep and recirculate all deposits at a handsome profit. However, I doubt NCBA and kamwana would allow it....
They must find it difficult....... those who have taken authority as the truth, rather than truth as the authority. -G. Massey.
wukan
#792 Posted : Monday, May 11, 2020 1:13:45 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 11/13/2015
Posts: 1,408
rwitre wrote:


Quarterly Statistical Bulletin market analysis for the period covering the third and fourth quarters of 2019, done by CMA:




Top 5 are pulling double digit growths. Cytonn and Zimele offering high rates and ease of access, Sanlam and Britam making heavy investments in digital products to target young market.
Meanwhile the old timers ICEA, Stanlib, Madison are barely making change. Old Mutual, Equity and Coop saw reductions.

Tide is changing. While the heavyweights still control a huge portion of the market, if they keep getting comfortable they will continue losing marketshare.

Full Report: The CMA Quarterly Capital Markets Statistical Bulletin


Cytonn has done analysis for the full year 2019. It is still an old boys network. 82% of the market

https://cytonnreport.com.../fy2019-utf-performance

Equity tried their hand and it's been a dismal performance.
paulkimani
#793 Posted : Sunday, June 07, 2020 9:47:34 AM
Rank: New-farer


Joined: 1/19/2016
Posts: 77
Angelica _ann
#794 Posted : Sunday, June 07, 2020 10:02:21 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/7/2012
Posts: 11,600
paulkimani wrote:
https://twitter.com/pkwazua/status/1268061618056966145?s=21




Why drag wazua into this your fight with Cytonn?
In the business world, everyone is paid in two coins - cash and experience. Take the experience first; the cash will come later - H Geneen
rwitre
#795 Posted : Sunday, June 07, 2020 10:24:12 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 3/8/2018
Posts: 433
Location: Nairobi
Angelica _ann wrote:

paulkimani wrote:
https://twitter.com/pkwazua/status/1268061618056966145?s=21




Why drag wazua into this your fight with Cytonn?


Clicked on the link out of curiosity. Comments on the thread are from two accounts with less than 5 followers. (One has zero)

No problem with new accounts. But these are new accounts whose content is majorly on bashing Cytonn. Unsurprisingly, PK's account doesn't talk about anything else.

Forgive us if we conclude that yours is a personal vendetta against the company, not an objective take on their activities.
kaka2za
#796 Posted : Sunday, June 07, 2020 1:25:33 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/3/2008
Posts: 3,947
Location: Gwitu
rwitre wrote:
Angelica _ann wrote:

paulkimani wrote:
https://twitter.com/pkwazua/status/1268061618056966145?s=21




Why drag wazua into this your fight with Cytonn?


Clicked on the link out of curiosity. Comments on the thread are from two accounts with less than 5 followers. (One has zero)

No problem with new accounts. But these are new accounts whose content is majorly on bashing Cytonn. Unsurprisingly, PK's account doesn't talk about anything else.

Forgive us if we conclude that yours is a personal vendetta against the company, not an objective take on their activities.


This reminds of a movie called Obsessed featuring Idris Elba and Beyonce.
Truth forever on the scaffold
Wrong forever on the throne
(James Russell Rowell)
paulkimani
#797 Posted : Tuesday, June 23, 2020 7:50:01 AM
Rank: New-farer


Joined: 1/19/2016
Posts: 77
Good morning and welcome to another episode of “peter kimani only comments on Cytonn”!

Welcome! Hope you all are keeping safe

#cytonnairesturnedcytonnbeggars

https://twitter.com/deev...272260117623377921?s=21

https://twitter.com/morr...275287053450784768?s=21

https://twitter.com/morr...275270947151450112?s=21

https://twitter.com/ekon...275272136064667653?s=21

Have a blessed day to friends and foe alike!


paulkimani
#798 Posted : Tuesday, June 23, 2020 7:55:08 AM
Rank: New-farer


Joined: 1/19/2016
Posts: 77
KulaRaha
#799 Posted : Tuesday, June 23, 2020 9:11:17 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/26/2007
Posts: 6,471
Lots of whispers in the market about a high level shake up of personnel in Cytonn.....are the fellows planning on running with the money?
Business opportunities are like buses,there's always another one coming
muganda
#800 Posted : Wednesday, June 24, 2020 10:38:12 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/15/2006
Posts: 3,871
There's a deeva who really seems to have an axe to grind with Cytonn.

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