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Maumau fiasco
masukuma
#41 Posted : Monday, March 21, 2016 11:53:50 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,211
Location: Nairobi
By the way... totally unrelated question. Who was the main driving force for multipartism?
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
tycho
#42 Posted : Monday, March 21, 2016 1:27:57 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,580
Location: Nairobi
masukuma wrote:
By the way... totally unrelated question. Who was the main driving force for multipartism?


Ask, 'what was the driving force behind multipartysim'? The answer is the same for all historical change...
Othelo
#43 Posted : Monday, March 21, 2016 1:46:44 PM
Rank: User


Joined: 1/20/2014
Posts: 3,528
tycho wrote:
masukuma wrote:
By the way... totally unrelated question. Who was the main driving force for multipartism?


Ask, 'what was the driving force behind multipartysim'? The answer is the same for all historical change...

Baba wa Taifa, kilakitu no. 1 then
Formal education will make you a living. Self-education will make you a fortune - Jim Rohn.
wukan
#44 Posted : Tuesday, March 22, 2016 1:30:58 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 11/13/2015
Posts: 1,238
tycho wrote:
Speaking of 'multipartysim'; the US had the leading role in promoting it. The US also played a leading role in calling for independence of many colonies. Why did they play the role? Changing political conditions would make them richer and more powerful.

After all, isn't it odd for us to speak of a 'second liberation'?


I really wanted this topic to die but not before I put in a last word. Let me offer a few history lessons

1. There was something called Feudalism a system of "haves" and "have nots" which was the foundation of Europe. You had lords, then you had serfs(peasants). It worked by making small part of the population rich to own the land and the other part poor to provide labour

2. When Feudalism existed serfs suffered immensely and together with the persecuted in Europe decided to start a new life in America. The British obviously wanted to retain the feudalism in America which is the reason why they fought for independence. That's what Americans call american values and why they value freedom.

3. When the British came to Kenya the Kikuyus had some form of feudalism where land was owned by the clan (mbari) and there were some serfs (Ahoi-landless). The settlers who came to kenya were mostly upper class British and they wanted to establish a feudal system. They achieved it by enacting the 1915 Crown Lands Ordinance where the governor dished out land in the white highlands.

4. The entire aim of the white settlers was to establish a self governing colony based on feudalism. The mau mau struggle was a struggle against feudalism even within kikuyu community (Squatters and the Roots of Mau Mau, 1905-63)

5. The Swynerton plan ensured the place of quasi-feudalism and those who lost ended up in alcoholism. Ever wondered why the Scots, the Aborigines and the Native Americans(Red Indians) have alcohol addiction problems and also gambling addition? Never extinguish the flame of self-determination

6. The second liberation was about dismantling the quasi-feudal state that existed after the Brits left and the realization that kenya needed to be governed by laws where everyone was equal and governed by institutions. The idealists thought kenya would end up like USA where it doesn't depend on who you know but how hard you worked.

7. Did the second liberation work? No it didn't it was hijacked somewhere we ended up with constitutional dispensation where we institutionalized feudalism through the creation of county governments. Corruption and public appointments is also one of the way to keep feudalism alive.

8. Have I benefited from the feudal state? smile smile The struggle continues...
tycho
#45 Posted : Tuesday, March 22, 2016 3:23:23 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,580
Location: Nairobi
@wukan, thanks for the perspective and as I'm digesting your thoughts, I have one question:

What was Dedan's class in the Gikuyu feudal system?
masukuma
#46 Posted : Tuesday, March 22, 2016 3:43:28 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,211
Location: Nairobi
Othelo wrote:
tycho wrote:
masukuma wrote:
By the way... totally unrelated question. Who was the main driving force for multipartism?


Ask, 'what was the driving force behind multipartysim'? The answer is the same for all historical change...

Baba wa Taifa, kilakitu no. 1 then

actually if you really thought about it Kenya was fine (most of kenya really) with Single party politics until the mlolongo fiasco in 1988, the fallout from that setup kenya for multiparty democracy. prior to 1988 - even the Americans were happy to have strong men in charge. Democracy was never an issue, government spending was never an issue, theft and stashing was never an issue as long as USSR was there but after USSR started falling and we (our strongmen could not have places to go to since US did not support our economies that well after that) had to change. Remember Smith Hempstone? appointed in 1989? Economically Structural Adjustment programs kicked in in the 90s. The Goldenberg scam? 1991! when Kenya was running low on foreign currency (so called hard currency) for imports and akina IMF were not playing ball and thus schemes like these got an ear to listen to. My point? sometimes we get focused on micro happenings but really there may be some larger pieces moving at a macro scale that actually make the changes we see permanent.
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
wukan
#47 Posted : Tuesday, March 22, 2016 4:15:20 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 11/13/2015
Posts: 1,238
tycho wrote:
@wukan, thanks for the perspective and as I'm digesting your thoughts, I have one question:

What was Dedan's class in the Gikuyu feudal system?


Dedan was ahoi class that's why he was conscripted into army in the WWII plus he had no land in core kikuyu areas(Nyandarua was settler area).

Quote:
Most of the Mau Mau guerrillas were young men and landless peasants. Some of these peasants had lost land to corrupt chiefs and other “landed gentry” in Central Province, while others were victims of land appropriation carried out to enable European settlement. Repatriated African squatters from the white farms in the Rift Valley fueled the ranks of the guerrillas, as did the economically desperate and unemployed Kikuyu in Nairobi and the surrounding urban centers. During the post–World War II period, there was massive African unemployment in the urban areas of Kenya, along with very poor housing (or no housing at all) and high inflation.
tycho
#48 Posted : Tuesday, March 22, 2016 5:12:52 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,580
Location: Nairobi
@wukan, so beggars found themselves with some power, having traveled to distant lands as fighters. There they realized that all humans are the same, and generally classes emerge because of the ability to use force and dominate.

And because the fighters could now organize an army, could make guns, then they too could have a piece of the cake held by the elites.

Meanwhile a new group of elites was coming; educated Africans who'd been to Europe and America. They found an opening in the fighters and they make an alliance with the obvious promise that the fighters would be rewarded with the objects of their aspirations.

They joined forces and made a convincing case that independence was viable and necessary. The colonialists were satisfied and they granted independence. Politicians got they had wanted, but granting the fighter's wishes was taboo because one wasn't to upset the world order.

But still, the support of the masses was necessary and to mollify them, history was crafted to make it appear that the fighters were heroes. But who cared? Who cares?

The maumau story is a delusion. It's a fiasco in all ways. Dedan isn't my hero, but I congratulate him for daring the impossible.
masukuma
#49 Posted : Tuesday, March 22, 2016 5:49:51 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,211
Location: Nairobi
tycho wrote:
@wukan, so beggars found themselves with some power, having traveled to distant lands as fighters. There they realized that all humans are the same, and generally classes emerge because of the ability to use force and dominate.

And because the fighters could now organize an army, could make guns, then they too could have a piece of the cake held by the elites.

Meanwhile a new group of elites was coming; educated Africans who'd been to Europe and America. They found an opening in the fighters and they make an alliance with the obvious promise that the fighters would be rewarded with the objects of their aspirations.

They joined forces and made a convincing case that independence was viable and necessary. The colonialists were satisfied and they granted independence. Politicians got they had wanted, but granting the fighter's wishes was taboo because one wasn't to upset the world order.

But still, the support of the masses was necessary and to mollify them, history was crafted to make it appear that the fighters were heroes. But who cared? Who cares?

The maumau story is a delusion. It's a fiasco in all ways. Dedan isn't my hero, but I congratulate him for daring the impossible.

I think I know of only 2 instances that the colonised/slaves kicked the asses of the colonizers. The US and Haiti
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
wazuaguest
#50 Posted : Tuesday, March 22, 2016 6:38:31 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 2/9/2012
Posts: 576
tycho wrote:
That the maumau fought and died for the people of Kenya is an absurd story to feed our minds with.

The truth is that these were disaffected people who tried to shape their experience and failed miserably and won nothing for anyone.


Keyboard warrior.
Africa belongs to Africans.
Rahatupu
#51 Posted : Tuesday, March 22, 2016 7:26:42 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 12/4/2009
Posts: 1,945
Location: matano manne
wukan wrote:
tycho wrote:
Speaking of 'multipartysim'; the US had the leading role in promoting it. The US also played a leading role in calling for independence of many colonies. Why did they play the role? Changing political conditions would make them richer and more powerful.

After all, isn't it odd for us to speak of a 'second liberation'?


I really wanted this topic to die but not before I put in a last word. Let me offer a few history lessons

1. There was something called Feudalism a system of "haves" and "have nots" which was the foundation of Europe. You had lords, then you had serfs(peasants). It worked by making small part of the population rich to own the land and the other part poor to provide labour

2. When Feudalism existed serfs suffered immensely and together with the persecuted in Europe decided to start a new life in America. The British obviously wanted to retain the feudalism in America which is the reason why they fought for independence. That's what Americans call american values and why they value freedom.

3. When the British came to Kenya the Kikuyus had some form of feudalism where land was owned by the clan (mbari) and there were some serfs (Ahoi-landless). The settlers who came to kenya were mostly upper class British and they wanted to establish a feudal system. They achieved it by enacting the 1915 Crown Lands Ordinance where the governor dished out land in the white highlands.

4. The entire aim of the white settlers was to establish a self governing colony based on feudalism. The mau mau struggle was a struggle against feudalism even within kikuyu community (Squatters and the Roots of Mau Mau, 1905-63)

5. The Swynerton plan ensured the place of quasi-feudalism and those who lost ended up in alcoholism. Ever wondered why the Scots, the Aborigines and the Native Americans(Red Indians) have alcohol addiction problems and also gambling addition? Never extinguish the flame of self-determination

6. The second liberation was about dismantling the quasi-feudal state that existed after the Brits left and the realization that kenya needed to be governed by laws where everyone was equal and governed by institutions. The idealists thought kenya would end up like USA where it doesn't depend on who you know but how hard you worked.

7. Did the second liberation work? No it didn't it was hijacked somewhere we ended up with constitutional dispensation where we institutionalized feudalism through the creation of county governments. Corruption and public appointments is also one of the way to keep feudalism alive.

8. Have I benefited from the feudal state? smile smile The struggle continues...


I disagree-

1.feudalism in post colonial Kenya as presented is a facade and a fallacy. Better put it as direct slavery and or forced labour I the first example. As to alleging that the serfs took themselves to USA, Australia and the new world you have it all wrong. This was a deliberate government policy back up by the thriving empire courtesy of the trade in black skins and exploitation of resources in Asia, Africa and the Americas.

2. Second revolution had nothing to do with serfism and or feudalism.
tycho
#52 Posted : Tuesday, March 22, 2016 8:19:40 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,580
Location: Nairobi
wazuaguest wrote:
tycho wrote:
That the maumau fought and died for the people of Kenya is an absurd story to feed our minds with.

The truth is that these were disaffected people who tried to shape their experience and failed miserably and won nothing for anyone.


Keyboard warrior.


No. Merkebah warrior.








kayhara
#53 Posted : Wednesday, March 23, 2016 10:14:29 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 5/5/2011
Posts: 1,033
del
To Each His Own
kayhara
#54 Posted : Wednesday, March 23, 2016 10:21:39 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 5/5/2011
Posts: 1,033

Corporal Wanjohi and tribal police Ndirangu fired the shots that wounded Dedan Kimathi leading to his capture.
Odhiambo Levin Opiyo
To Each His Own
masukuma
#55 Posted : Wednesday, March 23, 2016 11:08:04 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,211
Location: Nairobi
On 24th January 1953, just three months after a state of emergency was declared, the Mau Mau claimed the Rucks, a family of English heritage that had always been regarded as dealing with their black employees in a fair-minded and benevolent manner. They even supported a clinic at their own expense.

The bodies of the husband, wife, and their six-year old son were found so hacked and ripped that they were hardly recognizable.

Earlier, in the month when the emergency was declared, in October 1952, a lone white settler had been killed and disemboweled.

These successive macabre killings so infuriated the settler community that they staged protests, lashing out at the colonial government for neglecting their safety interests.


Later, it was learnt that staff employed by the Rucks were behind the killings.

What the white settlers were learning, to their obvious horror, was that African workers suddenly could not be trusted. Naturally, mistrust rose considerably.

The butchery that descended upon the Rucks had the white farmers watching their employees apprehensively, at the same time preparing for another brutal attack on their homes, many of which were built in isolated locations.

In-fighting and mudslinging among the white community mounted, with nervy individuals accusing their neighbors of harbouring suspects by not exposing them to interrogation.

Yet another raid would occur on 26th March 1953, this time against the police station at Naivasha. The station was overrun and guns and ammunition taken away in a truck.

This particular raid was led by Mbaria Kaniû, who actually hailed from the other side of the Aberdares, in Fort Hall (Murang'a).

Still, later that very night, in the infamous Lari massacre, Mau Mau at Lari poured gasoline over thatched roofs of a village and set the homes on fire.

Most of the men of the village were away serving in the Kikuyu Guard, an anti-Mau Mau force.

They would later return to be met by the worst tragedies of their lives. The 90 bodies of victims found in the charred remains were those of women and children.

As if the calamity on the families wasn't enough, as the Mau Mau retreated, they mutilated more than 1,000 of the villagers' cattle as further punishment.
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
wukan
#56 Posted : Wednesday, March 23, 2016 12:35:42 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 11/13/2015
Posts: 1,238
@masukuma, the total number of Nazi executed for war crimes by hanging was 486, total number of mau mau executed was 1,090 the highest in the entire history of the British empire. It was also the first time in a century that public executions were carried using mobile gallows.

Five shillings was the unofficial rate for every severed pair of hands delivered by home guards for finger printing. Reason why parents wouldn't accept dowry from ngati

The uprising was, in David Anderson's words, "a story of atrocity and excess on both sides, a dirty war from which no one emerged with much pride, and certainly no glory."

"We are determined to have independence in peace, and we shall not allow hooligans to rule Kenya. We must have no hatred towards one another. Mau Mau was a disease which had been eradicated, and must never be remembered again" Jomo Kenyatta

Let us accept and move on
PeterReborn
#57 Posted : Wednesday, March 23, 2016 12:57:11 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 1/3/2014
Posts: 1,016
Very interesting discussion. In retrospect this war was unnecessary. We should just have allowed the mzungu to continue ruling us. Kenya would be middle economic country by now. The maumau veterans died like dogs. They were never appreciated. The collaborators educated their kids and are now running this country. The children of maumau are still squatters and live in poverty.
“Each night, when I go to sleep, I die. And the next morning, when I wake up, I am reborn.”
― Mahatma Gandhi
Othelo
#58 Posted : Wednesday, March 23, 2016 1:10:36 PM
Rank: User


Joined: 1/20/2014
Posts: 3,528
PeterReborn wrote:
Very interesting discussion. In retrospect this war was unnecessary. We should just have allowed the mzungu to continue ruling us. Kenya would be middle economic country by now. The maumau veterans died like dogs. They were never appreciated. The collaborators educated their kids and are now running this country. The children of maumau are still squatters and live in poverty.

Still worship the collaborators and their kids smile
Formal education will make you a living. Self-education will make you a fortune - Jim Rohn.
wukan
#59 Posted : Wednesday, March 23, 2016 1:27:42 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 11/13/2015
Posts: 1,238
PeterReborn wrote:
Very interesting discussion. In retrospect this war was unnecessary. We should just have allowed the mzungu to continue ruling us. Kenya would be middle economic country by now. The maumau veterans died like dogs. They were never appreciated. The collaborators educated their kids and are now running this country. The children of maumau are still squatters and live in poverty.


I have posted because it's important not to have a defeated attitude. A defeated mind will never innovate or prosper. maumau made a very important point in the words of Winston Churchill to a leader of the white settlers " Kikuyu are not the primitive cowardly people which many imagined them to be", ‘but people of considerable fibre, ability and steel’

Those mzungu you think were good were called by General Erskine ‘They are all middle-class sluts.’ Kenya was ‘a sunny land for shady people’

Look for this book Histories of the Hanged: Britain’s Dirty War in Kenya and the End of Empire by David Anderson

Lolest!
#60 Posted : Wednesday, March 23, 2016 1:40:23 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/18/2011
Posts: 11,774
Location: Kianjokoma
Othelo wrote:
PeterReborn wrote:
Very interesting discussion. In retrospect this war was unnecessary. We should just have allowed the mzungu to continue ruling us. Kenya would be middle economic country by now. The maumau veterans died like dogs. They were never appreciated. The collaborators educated their kids and are now running this country. The children of maumau are still squatters and live in poverty.

Still worship the collaborators and their kids smile

squatters? Wapi??
Laughing out loudly smile Applause d'oh! Sad Drool Liar Shame on you Pray
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