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What is FGM really ?
Impunity
#1 Posted : Wednesday, January 17, 2018 1:45:30 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/2/2009
Posts: 25,498
Location: Masada
Now female medical doctors themselves are in courts to legalize it as soon as possible.

Reminds me of the song "legslizaaaaaation,or the ganja herb"

Sad Sad
Portfolio: Sold
You know you've made it when you get a parking space for your yatcht.

AlphDoti
#2 Posted : Wednesday, January 17, 2018 5:26:55 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/20/2008
Posts: 5,466
Location: Kenya
AlphDoti wrote:
Just for the record, as far I am concerned, FGM can be BUT not a MUST. If there is any harm in female circumcision then it can even be BANNED (and I support) because it has been proven by scientific and medically proven that the way it is done is harmful to the health of the girl child.

And similarly, the male circumcision is not a MUST but is RECOMMENDED. For the male, there is no scientific and medical harm to male circumcision. All we hear is that oh it is painful, or oh it is risky, or oh it is deforming, or oh it is sexually diminishing, or oh there is no health benefits.

But we know it is hygienic. Urine droplets remaining inside the sac can cause irritation and become smelly from the body heat. This sometimes leads to infection...

That was my post #29: Tuesday, February 16, 2016 5:10:22 PM
AlphDoti
#3 Posted : Wednesday, January 17, 2018 5:34:50 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/20/2008
Posts: 5,466
Location: Kenya
What is FGM? I think it is just one of the body cosmetics...

To me FGM has no beneficial significance. To me, FGM has no sanctions. According to me, it is not sanctioned.

FGM is a cultural practice. It was found in parts of Africa and Arabia...

It is not a must for a woman to undergo FGM. Countries differ over the issue. Some countries sanction it whereas others do not. Whoever chooses not to do it is not considered to have committed a sin.

I welcome the recent tougher legislation and enforcement against FGM. Personally I support banning of this practice, because it is not applicable in the modern world.

I don't know if circumcised woman enjoys sex more or less. But for male it is better if he is circumcised. Scientist have also supported this practice, male circumcision...
Dahatre
#4 Posted : Wednesday, January 17, 2018 9:05:57 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 12/21/2009
Posts: 515
Impunity wrote:
Now female medical doctors themselves are in courts to legalize it as soon as possible.

Reminds me of the song "legslizaaaaaation,or the ganja herb"

Sad Sad

That doctor should stay in her lane and leave legalese to lawyers. She is conflating decriminalization with legalization. She is really defending the right of women to choose FGM without being jailed for it.

Unfortunately, most FGM is performed on children 8-15. These are not grown women and she should know better, or have a lawyer argue her point.
Dahatre
#5 Posted : Wednesday, January 17, 2018 9:12:32 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 12/21/2009
Posts: 515
AlphDoti wrote:
What is FGM? I think it is just one of the body cosmetics...

To me FGM has no beneficial significance. To me, FGM has no sanctions. According to me, it is not sanctioned.

FGM is a cultural practice. It was found in parts of Africa and Arabia...

It is not a must for a woman to undergo FGM. Countries differ over the issue. Some countries sanction it whereas others do not. Whoever chooses not to do it is not considered to have committed a sin.

I welcome the recent tougher legislation and enforcement against FGM. Personally I support banning of this practice, because it is not applicable in the modern world.

I don't know if circumcised woman enjoys sex more or less. But for male it is better if he is circumcised. Scientist have also supported this practice, male circumcision...


cosmetic for whom?
masukuma
#6 Posted : Thursday, January 18, 2018 8:18:34 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 12,512
Location: Nairobi
if it can be an elective surgery done in a medical center by an adult - shauri yake!! it's like the whole banning of shisha thing... oh... it's like 200 cigarettes... sawa... a grown-up engaging in it has the same rights as you - you are not the boss of them right?

sometimes i wonder... we will start seeing people with distasteful things as whole body tatoos, nose ringg, big discs in their ear lobes and split tongues

we will rationalize it as - watu wazima wameamua kufanya vile wanataka and are able to live with the consequences of their actions

By the way - not that these actions have no consequences on how you will be viewed, if you show up at my desk with a split tongue looking for a job - hutapata!
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
FRM2011
#7 Posted : Thursday, January 18, 2018 12:19:01 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 11/5/2010
Posts: 2,067
Impunity wrote:
Now female medical doctors themselves are in courts to legalize it as soon as possible.

Reminds me of the song "legslizaaaaaation,or the ganja herb"

Sad Sad


I had missed this until I saw it huko Facebook a.k.a MKZ. First things first. The average IQ of the Kenyan society is quite low if those discussions are anything to go by. The insults that poor doctor has received on Facebook. And all from idiots who didn't even get to hear what she was saying.

The good doctor is arguing for elective FGM for adults who would wish to have it. Her opposers argue kids will suffer from FGM. Clearly, we have a hearing problem in this country.

If we consider circumcision as a form of Male genital mutilation. And that it only exists for cultural and religious reasons. It has no known medical benefit. Before anyone says Aids, please read the literature behind the push by medics to have male circumcision. It was about hygiene. Nothing else. In Europe where circumcision rates are below 20%, they also have the lowest HIV rates. Good hygiene.

Now suppose I went to court and argued that young boys in this country are forced to undergo MGM before they are of majority age where they can make the decision for themselves.

Legally, the doctor's argument is very solid.
AlphDoti
#8 Posted : Thursday, January 18, 2018 1:15:17 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/20/2008
Posts: 5,466
Location: Kenya
FRM2011 wrote:
Impunity wrote:
Now female medical doctors themselves are in courts to legalize it as soon as possible.

Reminds me of the song "legslizaaaaaation,or the ganja herb"

Sad Sad

I had missed this until I saw it huko Facebook a.k.a MKZ. First things first. The average IQ of the Kenyan society is quite low if those discussions are anything to go by. The insults that poor doctor has received on Facebook. And all from idiots who didn't even get to hear what she was saying.

The good doctor is arguing for elective FGM for adults who would wish to have it. Her opposers argue kids will suffer from FGM. Clearly, we have a hearing problem in this country.

If we consider circumcision as a form of Male genital mutilation. And that it only exists for cultural and religious reasons. It has no known medical benefit. Before anyone says Aids, please read the literature behind the push by medics to have male circumcision. It was about hygiene. Nothing else. In Europe where circumcision rates are below 20%, they also have the lowest HIV rates. Good hygiene.

Now suppose I went to court and argued that young boys in this country are forced to undergo MGM before they are of majority age where they can make the decision for themselves.

Legally, the doctor's argument is very solid.

Good post Applause
Thitifini
#9 Posted : Thursday, January 18, 2018 10:25:54 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 1/15/2015
Posts: 328
Location: Kenya
AlphDoti wrote:
FRM2011 wrote:
Impunity wrote:
Now female medical doctors themselves are in courts to legalize it as soon as possible.

Reminds me of the song "legslizaaaaaation,or the ganja herb"

Sad Sad

I had missed this until I saw it huko Facebook a.k.a MKZ. First things first. The average IQ of the Kenyan society is quite low if those discussions are anything to go by. The insults that poor doctor has received on Facebook. And all from idiots who didn't even get to hear what she was saying.

The good doctor is arguing for elective FGM for adults who would wish to have it. Her opposers argue kids will suffer from FGM. Clearly, we have a hearing problem in this country.

If we consider circumcision as a form of Male genital mutilation. And that it only exists for cultural and religious reasons. It has no known medical benefit. Before anyone says Aids, please read the literature behind the push by medics to have male circumcision. It was about hygiene. Nothing else. In Europe where circumcision rates are below 20%, they also have the lowest HIV rates. Good hygiene.

Now suppose I went to court and argued that young boys in this country are forced to undergo MGM before they are of majority age where they can make the decision for themselves.

Legally, the doctor's argument is very solid.

Good post Applause

Applause Applause Applause

#RoundIsShape
masukuma
#10 Posted : Friday, January 19, 2018 4:50:21 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 12,512
Location: Nairobi
FRM2011 wrote:
Impunity wrote:
Now female medical doctors themselves are in courts to legalize it as soon as possible.

Reminds me of the song "legslizaaaaaation,or the ganja herb"

Sad Sad


I had missed this until I saw it huko Facebook a.k.a MKZ. First things first. The average IQ of the Kenyan society is quite low if those discussions are anything to go by. The insults that poor doctor has received on Facebook. And all from idiots who didn't even get to hear what she was saying.

The good doctor is arguing for elective FGM for adults who would wish to have it. Her opposers argue kids will suffer from FGM. Clearly, we have a hearing problem in this country.

If we consider circumcision as a form of Male genital mutilation. And that it only exists for cultural and religious reasons. It has no known medical benefit. Before anyone says Aids, please read the literature behind the push by medics to have male circumcision. It was about hygiene. Nothing else. In Europe where circumcision rates are below 20%, they also have the lowest HIV rates. Good hygiene.

Now suppose I went to court and argued that young boys in this country are forced to undergo MGM before they are of majority age where they can make the decision for themselves.

Legally, the doctor's argument is very solid.


MGM is real!
The Men Who Want Their Foreskin Back
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
Cv254K
#11 Posted : Friday, January 19, 2018 5:44:59 PM
Rank: New-farer


Joined: 9/2/2017
Posts: 25
FRM2011 wrote:
Impunity wrote:
Now female medical doctors themselves are in courts to legalize it as soon as possible.

Reminds me of the song "legslizaaaaaation,or the ganja herb"

Sad Sad


If we consider circumcision as a form of Male genital mutilation. And that it only exists for cultural and religious reasons. It has no known medical benefit. Before anyone says Aids, please read the literature behind the push by medics to have male circumcision. It was about hygiene. Nothing else. In Europe where circumcision rates are below 20%, they also have the lowest HIV rates. Good hygiene.




I think the best-available evidence: meta-analyses, longitudinal studies, Randomized controlled trials show that circumcision has health benefits in respect of some STDs, UTIs, and especially HIV. Ata kama huku culture and religion are usually the main reasons people practise circumcision, the claim that it has no medical benefit is false. See examples: a meta-analysis on STIs, a randomized controlled trial in South Africa, and a longitudinal study in New Zealand. A study in Kenya has shown circumcision not to have any significant benefit against nonulcerative STIs, but even its results shows that in absolute terms,numbers affected by these STIs were higher in controls than in circumcised group, and that circumcision could lower risk of transmission to partners. You can point us to your literature but ensure that it at least reports its methodology so that we can see how they have conducted their studies.

"In Europe where circumcision rates are below 20%, they also have the lowest HIV rates." This is a very flawed logic because of factors such as higher rates of condom use (as a contraceptive) in Europe compared to Africa that would favour Europe in terms of prevalence rates. A recent study has addressed this issue by comparing reasons why Israel has lower HIV rates compared to France and Netherlands (all these countries have low HIV prevalence). The results are that the lower rate in Israel can be explained significantly by the routine circumcision in Israel. These results are part of the reasons why there has been calls for Europe to develop a policy favouring routine male circumcision.

Does FGM have any benefits? The only studies I can find on FGM are those showing its link to complications during child birth. While a pro-choice argument could be made, the challenge is that most communities practise it on children and through crude methods. Crude methods that were being used for boys have been replaced by medical procedure in many communities. I do not think FGM be provided safely as a medical option without any adverse health effects. It is difficult to support it even as a pro-choice option.
Dahatre
#12 Posted : Saturday, January 20, 2018 3:25:52 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 12/21/2009
Posts: 515
Not much to say about MGM:
Except,

1. If you decide not to circumcise your boy child, TEACH them how to keep that foreskin clean!!!
2. If you decide to get circumcised as a grown man: make sure you are screened for for maradhis, especially diabetes---Otherwise that kindoda may not heal.

On FGM:
Cosmetic FGM=Piercings of the various parts of the Vijayjay (Clit/labia rings etc), and other procedures such as trimming inner labia or clitoral hood--aka Labiaplasty and Clitoral hood reduction.

These are generally elective procedures that can be performed medically and are often performed on adult women at their request.

What is not cosmetic and is indeed harmful especially if done on kids is type 1,2 and 3 FGM.
See pictures here
1. Removing the clitoris partially or completely
2. Removing the labia+clitoris
3. Removing clitoris, labia and sewing the child’s outer labia partially or completely

No doctor worth his/her profession should engage in this level of harm. Any adult doing this to kids below the age of consent should be thrown in jail Pap! Culture be damned!

Impunity
#13 Posted : Saturday, January 20, 2018 6:32:14 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/2/2009
Posts: 25,498
Location: Masada
I can't view the pictures for my personal reasons.
They can irreversibly sent my appetite.
Anyway I think cosmetic is saw a as long as it doesn't leave a rough scar.
Portfolio: Sold
You know you've made it when you get a parking space for your yatcht.

Cv254K
#14 Posted : Sunday, January 21, 2018 1:42:12 AM
Rank: New-farer


Joined: 9/2/2017
Posts: 25
Piercings ni Cosmetic FGM? Na guys who put pins on their members? Cosmetic Circumcision/ Cosmetic MGM?

My issue with FGM is that it would be hard to give informed consent even on pro-choice basis due to cultural meanings of FGM. Most cases of 'consent' would likely be of undue influence either from husbands and the community. The basis of Labiaplasty and Clitoral hood reduction is to improve sexual functioning for the bearer or correct congenital defects. FGM, as a cultural practice, is intended to lower sexual functioning (libido) of the bearer. Can we consider cosmetic FGM as a strategy to discourage the non-cosmetic FGM? I do not think this would work.
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