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Affordable Housing by Government of Kenya
simonkabz
#101 Posted : Thursday, August 30, 2018 8:24:24 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/2/2007
Posts: 8,734
Location: Cameroon
hardwood wrote:
simonkabz wrote:
simonkabz wrote:






For illustration purposes only: An overwhelming number of estate and feeder roads look like this in Eastlands.

Wajamaa please make me understand what this fella is trying to say. Is this acceptable anywhere?

The GoK seems to understand that Nairobi is filthy, stinking and rotten, hence the Ksh 7b meant for estate and feeder roads as part of the regeneration. But to me, that's a drop in the ocean.

Statehouse needs real advisors, not bloggers, not Runda cerelac babies. People who have seen it all in these uninhabitable, dangerous and dirty estates.

An attempt to Justify people living like animals in their own country, in a "top 10" African city is outright evil.

These factors ultimately lead to canalized traffic, dirty dusty muddy estates, health problems and low living standards. Those dirt roads are never swept.




At the end of the day, these images are the face of Nairobi. Tupende tusipende. You cannot convince anybody out there that those poor idiots of Eastlands should have built the roads themselves.

Yet a simple Google search brings them out. Other than this boy, is there anybody else who supports this level of neglect?

We have rural roads that are barely used. The famous Nyoka Nyoka road, is so deserted you'd think you're in Somalia. Yet human beings live like this.

It's the same story with Ruiru, Juja, Thika, Witeithie. People live like animals in some of these so called towns. Nothing to smile about.

I belong to the group that can afford fairly decent livelihood. But if this is the casual attitude we treat fellow struggling Kenyans, we're going nowhere.

Can wazua's give their input tusikie, maybe I care too much about backwardness.........


Seriously, cant those landlords in those lanes changa and buy maybe 10 lorries of murram (50k) and nyorosha the lane and make the place a bit presentable. At the end the day they are the losers coz of lack of tenants or poor rents. They could also changa and do cabro. Ama they will wait forever for sirkal saidia as they lose cash?


Bro you have a point. I've tried this in my town but it can't work. The landlords realize the benefits they would get from such an initiative but know very well its not their responsibility. The counties discourage such ventures too IOT EAT ...... And that leaves us with the GoK to save Kenyans from themselves.

The GoK is the ultimate Guardian of the city of Nairobi and other towns of interest in Kenya. GoK is the ultimate guardian of public land anyway, and has all the instruments of power and nearly 95% of all revenues collected within our borders.

This is the point I wish I were a billionaire..... I'd offer the GoK to do all these roads and claim accordingly, in a mutually benefitial deal.

From there we should be complaining of the urban sprawl poverty as was suggested earlier, not ordinary filth which every human should notice.
TULIA.........UFUNZWE!
hardwood
#102 Posted : Thursday, August 30, 2018 8:42:51 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/28/2015
Posts: 9,555
Location: Rodi Kopany, Homa Bay
simonkabz wrote:
hardwood wrote:
simonkabz wrote:
simonkabz wrote:






For illustration purposes only: An overwhelming number of estate and feeder roads look like this in Eastlands.

Wajamaa please make me understand what this fella is trying to say. Is this acceptable anywhere?

The GoK seems to understand that Nairobi is filthy, stinking and rotten, hence the Ksh 7b meant for estate and feeder roads as part of the regeneration. But to me, that's a drop in the ocean.

Statehouse needs real advisors, not bloggers, not Runda cerelac babies. People who have seen it all in these uninhabitable, dangerous and dirty estates.

An attempt to Justify people living like animals in their own country, in a "top 10" African city is outright evil.

These factors ultimately lead to canalized traffic, dirty dusty muddy estates, health problems and low living standards. Those dirt roads are never swept.




At the end of the day, these images are the face of Nairobi. Tupende tusipende. You cannot convince anybody out there that those poor idiots of Eastlands should have built the roads themselves.

Yet a simple Google search brings them out. Other than this boy, is there anybody else who supports this level of neglect?

We have rural roads that are barely used. The famous Nyoka Nyoka road, is so deserted you'd think you're in Somalia. Yet human beings live like this.

It's the same story with Ruiru, Juja, Thika, Witeithie. People live like animals in some of these so called towns. Nothing to smile about.

I belong to the group that can afford fairly decent livelihood. But if this is the casual attitude we treat fellow struggling Kenyans, we're going nowhere.

Can wazua's give their input tusikie, maybe I care too much about backwardness.........


Seriously, cant those landlords in those lanes changa and buy maybe 10 lorries of murram (50k) and nyorosha the lane and make the place a bit presentable. At the end the day they are the losers coz of lack of tenants or poor rents. They could also changa and do cabro. Ama they will wait forever for sirkal saidia as they lose cash?


Bro you have a point. I've tried this in my town but it can't work. The landlords realize the benefits they would get from such an initiative but know very well its not their responsibility. The counties discourage such ventures too IOT EAT ...... And that leaves us with the GoK to sake Kenyans from themselves. The GoK is the ultimate Guardian of the city of Nairobi and other towns of interest in Kenya. GoK is the ultimate guardian of public land anyway.


If the govt is unable to fix the backstreets within the CBD how do you you expect them to go and fix the backstreets in eastlands and elsewhere. That will never happen. You will die waiting. In some gated communities ive seen home owners contribute and put cabro within the estate and those estates look very nice. Ultimately those landlords wa flats may have to do the same coz govt will never do it. Most of those flats are on 40x80 plots meaning the road section the landlord could make is only 40ft (about 13m) long. And since the road is 6m wide that would be about 70k for cabro. Since there are 2 flats one on each side of the road, they'd share the cost and each pays 35k. If you add labour and other materials total cost would be eg 70k per landlord. Now that these landlords make over 300k each month per flat that 70k is pesa kidogo sana and making the roads would greatly increase the value of their investments and rents collected.
simonkabz
#103 Posted : Thursday, August 30, 2018 8:50:38 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/2/2007
Posts: 8,734
Location: Cameroon
hardwood wrote:
simonkabz wrote:
hardwood wrote:
simonkabz wrote:
simonkabz wrote:






For illustration purposes only: An overwhelming number of estate and feeder roads look like this in Eastlands.

Wajamaa please make me understand what this fella is trying to say. Is this acceptable anywhere?

The GoK seems to understand that Nairobi is filthy, stinking and rotten, hence the Ksh 7b meant for estate and feeder roads as part of the regeneration. But to me, that's a drop in the ocean.

Statehouse needs real advisors, not bloggers, not Runda cerelac babies. People who have seen it all in these uninhabitable, dangerous and dirty estates.

An attempt to Justify people living like animals in their own country, in a "top 10" African city is outright evil.

These factors ultimately lead to canalized traffic, dirty dusty muddy estates, health problems and low living standards. Those dirt roads are never swept.




At the end of the day, these images are the face of Nairobi. Tupende tusipende. You cannot convince anybody out there that those poor idiots of Eastlands should have built the roads themselves.

Yet a simple Google search brings them out. Other than this boy, is there anybody else who supports this level of neglect?

We have rural roads that are barely used. The famous Nyoka Nyoka road, is so deserted you'd think you're in Somalia. Yet human beings live like this.

It's the same story with Ruiru, Juja, Thika, Witeithie. People live like animals in some of these so called towns. Nothing to smile about.

I belong to the group that can afford fairly decent livelihood. But if this is the casual attitude we treat fellow struggling Kenyans, we're going nowhere.

Can wazua's give their input tusikie, maybe I care too much about backwardness.........


Seriously, cant those landlords in those lanes changa and buy maybe 10 lorries of murram (50k) and nyorosha the lane and make the place a bit presentable. At the end the day they are the losers coz of lack of tenants or poor rents. They could also changa and do cabro. Ama they will wait forever for sirkal saidia as they lose cash?


Bro you have a point. I've tried this in my town but it can't work. The landlords realize the benefits they would get from such an initiative but know very well its not their responsibility. The counties discourage such ventures too IOT EAT ...... And that leaves us with the GoK to sake Kenyans from themselves. The GoK is the ultimate Guardian of the city of Nairobi and other towns of interest in Kenya. GoK is the ultimate guardian of public land anyway.


If the govt is unable to fix the backstreets within the CBD how do you you expect them to go and fix the backstreets in eastlands and elsewhere. That will never happen. You will die waiting. In some gated communities ive seen home owners contribute and put cabro within the estate and those estates look very nice. Ultimately those landlords wa flats may have to do the same coz govt will never do it. Most of those flats are on 40x80 plots meaning the road section the landlord could make is only 40ft (about 13m) long. And since the road is 6m that would be about 70k for cabro. Since there are 2 flats one on each side of the road, they'd share the cost and each pays 35k. If you add labour and other materials total cost would be eg 70k per landlord. Now that these landlords make over 300k each month per flat that 70k is pesa kidogo sana and making the roads would greatly increase the value of their investments and rents collected.


I like you hardwood coz you're practical.

What you've said is true, but it's not an obligation. It's in fact, a profiteering venture.

The GoK is fixing these things, and if it can fix 30%, it can fix 100%.

The GoK, if it were to properly prioritize, can pave most of Nairobi and other major urban centres. We have thousands of kms of idle rural roads serving a few thousand Kenyans that would have otherwise been bebefitial to millions of Nairobians.

I digress
TULIA.........UFUNZWE!
simonkabz
#104 Posted : Thursday, August 30, 2018 8:57:42 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/2/2007
Posts: 8,734
Location: Cameroon
Anybody who has extensively ventured into Murang'a or East of Naro Moru highway? Lots and lots of idle roads. What for? What for, while thousands of Nairobi an kids are going to school in gumboots? Why serve a few whereas millions suffer? I thought public expenditure is about democracy........ Democratic expenditure......... Start with the majority, and proceed with the rest.....

Why underfeed the cow that feeds Kenya 🇰🇪?
TULIA.........UFUNZWE!
simonkabz
#105 Posted : Thursday, August 30, 2018 9:06:17 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/2/2007
Posts: 8,734
Location: Cameroon
I'm happy BTW because for the first time in the history of Kiambu, GoK has remembered the southern part of the county. Southern Kiambu has been neglected as much as Eastlands. Ruiru, Juja, Witeithie, Thika, Kiganjo....... Taabu tupu despite the multi million private investments.

In 1 yr, I shall give a debrief.
TULIA.........UFUNZWE!
wukan
#106 Posted : Thursday, August 30, 2018 9:08:37 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 11/13/2015
Posts: 1,484
simonkabz wrote:
Anybody who has extensively ventured into Murang'a or East of Naro Moru highway? Lots and lots of idle roads. What for? What for, while thousands of Nairobi an kids are going to school in gumboots? Why serve a few whereas millions suffer? I thought public expenditure is about democracy........ Democratic expenditure......... Start with the majority, and proceed with the rest.....

Why underfeed the cow that feeds Kenya 🇰🇪?


Aki this is so true of Murang'a that place has some of the best roads I've seen in Kenya proper culverts, drainage, road furniture, they connect to each other yet so idle. Compared with what i saw recently in Murang'a without a doubt Nairobi has been really neglected
Fyatu
#107 Posted : Thursday, August 30, 2018 9:18:37 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 1/20/2011
Posts: 1,781
Location: Nakuru
simonkabz wrote:
Quote:
There's urgent need for the light rail system.......but who told the people of Nairobi (clueless middle-class) and most if not all Govt policy makers that Matatus are the problem?

Here's what I know on matters transport in the city:
40% - Matatus
40% - Walking
5% or less - Train
5% or less - Boda boda
10% - PERSONAL fkcin CARS.

Only 10% of the travelers clog the roads all day long. Matatus are not, have never been, and will never be the problem, even 14 seaters. What lacks is oversight on the matatu crews. We have no body mandated to ruthlessly keep these crazies in check (we killed NTSA, but in any case, NTSA was also clueless, and cannibalized itself by targeting private motorists). Forget about the Kiganjo alumni.

If I were Unye, I'd get NTSA back on the roads, with strict instructions of streamlining public & commercial transport, by way of focusing on the crews and not punishing vehicle owners.....starting with Nairobi. Very doable, and sustainable.

Over time I have consolidated, in my mind, what I think are very practical and rather obvious solutions. In a nutshell:

1. Light rail or tram system covering all the densely populated estates and wherever most cars crawl from.

2. A body over-sighting matatu crews to very strict standards. State owned buses is just another loss making and thieving scam waiting to happen.

3. Feeder roads interconnecting major roads and estates.

4. Endeavour to totally eliminate DUST and MUD on the estate roads, which will encourage WALKING (to work or to the nearest Matatu terminus). Mtu akitoka kwa nyumba apana kanyanga matope na vumbi, otherwise itabidi atoke na gari.

5. Massive investment in sidewalks. We have been doing them as a by-the-way, to very low standards, and they barely last 2 years.


The very beginning.

Wazuans, toeni maoni hapa. This is where it all started.

To develop a city, it will require a multifaceted approach. Not just a tram as is being suggested, and which I in fact support. Many remedies. And we shall end up with a city we can be proud of. A tram complimented by a BRT and a disciplined matatu system. And of course, the rest of the points as illuminated by yours truly.

You want people to walk to the tram/matatu terminus, do the estate roads so that the residents who bring their cars to town, walk to the terminus with no worry of soiling themselves. Etc etc.

A tram/light rail alone cannot be a panacea kind of solution, but attacking the problem from multiple fronts might bear fruits..... .


I will toa my maoni since i am a born and bred Eastlander.

First and foremost i wish to correct those who claim that Eastlands is sub-divded into 1/8s. The fact is what is usually loosely referred to as Eastlands nowadays by watu-wa-ku-come is NOT. Eastleigh, Mathare, Huruma, Dandora, Baba dogo, Kasarani, Mwiki and other slums are not Eastlands. They are Northlands/North East. Infact there is a place near Kiboro primary school huko Mathare known as Nort East up til today. Original Eastlands consist of Housing estates along Jogoo Rd which were well planned and built by government of old Jomo and Mubeberu e.g., Bahati, Jericho,Salem, Kimathi, Uhuru, Buru buru, Harambee, MAringo, Mbotela etc. Estates like original Kariobangi south, pioneer, civil servants(civo), Huruma Flats, Original Umoja 1 and Umoja 2 were also built by government and were very well planned and organized so the issue of 1/8 does not arise, though recently huko makadara/hamza ugly flats cropped up(during Kibakis tenure). You will be suprised that up-until today residents in some of these estates of yore have never witnessed a broken sewer system.

To me the only solution to tame greedy landlords building those ugly things that @hardwood has posted is for the government to do this.

Link

I believe this is what H.E. Uhuru has in mind. However, this cannot be achieved by giving jua kali(all due respect to watu wa jua kali) contractors. This requires Uhuru to fly to China with Kenya's title deed in his pocket. Hang it (curia title ya mugunda) and sign government to government single source tender(build maintain operate PPP) for mu-shina to build a new city huko Kajiado/Konza/Ruai or wherever complete with a train and other infrastructure like that one in Addis ababa or BRT like that one in Dar es Salaam.After doing this there will be a need for Kagame/Magufuli like president who does not like ujinga, ushamba,indiscipline and corruption. Throwing used condoms in the toilet should attract heavy penalties.Those houses should also be allocated on a one-man-one-house policy like they do in China. Hii ukora ya one man/woman 10 government built houses should also end.
Dumb money becomes dumb only when it listens to smart money
tycho
#108 Posted : Thursday, August 30, 2018 9:22:37 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
I haven't traveled a lot, but I've tried to investigate on how cities or settlements are designed and created.

The first thing is Spirit, then political-economic vision and reality, then the superstructure follows.

If we're talking about Nairobi, then we can trace how it came to be and how its creation conformed to the above. Then we can ask what we want, then everything can fall into its place almost automatically.

For me therefore, I can't start with roads or trams. Maybe I could start with community rituals and systems, meeting and collective learning centers and the like.

Maybe a coherent cultural policy would be another place to start from.

Because if the people are golden, then all will be golden. But because our age is of iron and mud, that's what we'll see.
Fyatu
#109 Posted : Thursday, August 30, 2018 9:32:33 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 1/20/2011
Posts: 1,781
Location: Nakuru
H.E. Uhuru should break ground very soon for me to believe that he is truly committed to uplifting human dignity in Kenyan cities of Nairobi and Mombasa which are technically the biggest slums of Africa.
Dumb money becomes dumb only when it listens to smart money
hardwood
#110 Posted : Thursday, August 30, 2018 10:02:32 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/28/2015
Posts: 9,555
Location: Rodi Kopany, Homa Bay
wukan wrote:
simonkabz wrote:
Anybody who has extensively ventured into Murang'a or East of Naro Moru highway? Lots and lots of idle roads. What for? What for, while thousands of Nairobi an kids are going to school in gumboots? Why serve a few whereas millions suffer? I thought public expenditure is about democracy........ Democratic expenditure......... Start with the majority, and proceed with the rest.....

Why underfeed the cow that feeds Kenya 🇰🇪?


Aki this is so true of Murang'a that place has some of the best roads I've seen in Kenya proper culverts, drainage, road furniture, they connect to each other yet so idle. Compared with what i saw recently in Murang'a without a doubt Nairobi has been really neglected


Are you saying that the govt should stop building roads in muranga, taita, bungoma, siaya etc (roads that connect major trading centres) until all the vichochoros in dandora, pipeline etc are tarmacked? Why do nairobians feel so entitled?
Much Know
#111 Posted : Thursday, August 30, 2018 10:15:00 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/6/2008
Posts: 3,474
hardwood wrote:
wukan wrote:
simonkabz wrote:
Anybody who has extensively ventured into Murang'a or East of Naro Moru highway? Lots and lots of idle roads. What for? What for, while thousands of Nairobi an kids are going to school in gumboots? Why serve a few whereas millions suffer? I thought public expenditure is about democracy........ Democratic expenditure......... Start with the majority, and proceed with the rest.....

Why underfeed the cow that feeds Kenya 🇰🇪?


Aki this is so true of Murang'a that place has some of the best roads I've seen in Kenya proper culverts, drainage, road furniture, they connect to each other yet so idle. Compared with what i saw recently in Murang'a without a doubt Nairobi has been really neglected


Are you saying that the govt should stop building roads in muranga, taita, bungoma, siaya etc (roads that connect major trading centres) until all the vichochoros in dandora, pipeline etc are tarmacked? Why do nairobians feel so entitled?

It's too much of a funny substance they call "tomato soss" which they eat with chips, hii tomato soss ndio ina wa affect vichwa! I usually end up suspecting tomato soss as the culprit.
A New Kenya
murchr
#112 Posted : Thursday, August 30, 2018 10:44:02 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/26/2012
Posts: 15,855
All in all, let me remind you

JkMwatha #23 Posted : Monday, August 24, 2015 12:23:18 PM wrote:


"There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
.
hardwood
#113 Posted : Thursday, August 30, 2018 10:57:47 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/28/2015
Posts: 9,555
Location: Rodi Kopany, Homa Bay
Fyatu wrote:
First and foremost i wish to correct those who claim that Eastlands is sub-divded into 1/8s.


There is nothing wrong with living on a 50x100 plot. Infact alot of the world's urban population even in the west lives in houses on such plots or smaller. And an even bigger number live in houses "without land" ie suspended in the air aka flats/apartments.







hardwood
#114 Posted : Thursday, August 30, 2018 11:12:43 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/28/2015
Posts: 9,555
Location: Rodi Kopany, Homa Bay
murchr wrote:
All in all, let me remind you

JkMwatha #23 Posted : Monday, August 24, 2015 12:23:18 PM wrote:




That thing is very inadequate. Doesn't serve those living in umoja, donholm, hurlingham, roysambu etc. You may not agree with me but i believe matatus are the most efficient form of transport coz they are always available, are everywhere, cheap, efficient and convenient in terms of drop off points. It is also mwananchi owned so the money ends up in the pockets of wanjiku unlike this brt and tram monsters which iam 100% sure will flop due to plunder, that is if they ever materialize.
murchr
#115 Posted : Thursday, August 30, 2018 11:43:35 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/26/2012
Posts: 15,855
hardwood wrote:
murchr wrote:
All in all, let me remind you

JkMwatha #23 Posted : Monday, August 24, 2015 12:23:18 PM wrote:




That thing is very inadequate. Doesn't serve those living in umoja, donholm, hurlingham, roysambu etc. You may not agree with me but i believe matatus are the most efficient form of transport coz they are always available, are everywhere, cheap, efficient and convenient in terms of drop off points. It is also mwananchi owned so the money ends up in the pockets of wanjiku unlike this brt and tram monsters which iam 100% will flop due to plunder, that is if they ever materialize.


What i did not indicate is that this was the 2012 plan.

In 2014 this one was developed



And others on those links.

I think we have a different definition of available, are everywhere, cheap, efficient and convenient in terms of drop off points.

I do not want a matatu everywhere because that is chaos

I want an accessible means of transport in price not one that hikes prices when there's scarcity or when it drizzles. Efficient in timing, convenient in that I do not need to walk for 30 minutes to get to the next connection point. If I alight at Muthurwa and I want to be in Westlands, I need to catch another means of transport bus/tram at the same terminal to take me to Westlands. That is convenience.
"There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
.
hardwood
#116 Posted : Friday, August 31, 2018 12:12:35 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/28/2015
Posts: 9,555
Location: Rodi Kopany, Homa Bay
murchr wrote:
hardwood wrote:
murchr wrote:
All in all, let me remind you

JkMwatha #23 Posted : Monday, August 24, 2015 12:23:18 PM wrote:




That thing is very inadequate. Doesn't serve those living in umoja, donholm, hurlingham, roysambu etc. You may not agree with me but i believe matatus are the most efficient form of transport coz they are always available, are everywhere, cheap, efficient and convenient in terms of drop off points. It is also mwananchi owned so the money ends up in the pockets of wanjiku unlike this brt and tram monsters which iam 100% will flop due to plunder, that is if they ever materialize.


What i did not indicate is that this was the 2012 plan.

In 2014 this one was developed



And others on those links.

I think we have a different definition of available, are everywhere, cheap, efficient and convenient in terms of drop off points.

I do not want a matatu everywhere because that is chaos

I want an accessible means of transport in price not one that hikes prices when there's scarcity or when it drizzles. Efficient in timing, convenient in that I do not need to walk for 30 minutes to get to the next connection point. If I alight at Muthurwa and I want to be in Westlands, I need to catch another means of transport bus/tram at the same terminal to take me to Westlands. That is convenience.


Those who have been mayuu will tell you that in some places when you miss eg the 7.30am bus, you have to wait for 30m (sometimes in snow or rain) for the next one to arrive at 8.00am sharp. That means you get late for work or classes or have to hire a taxi. Woe unto you if phombe makes you miss the 1ast bus in the evening/night. Compare that to matatus that are always running, you miss one you get another one the next minute or second. Matatus represent efficiency in public transport. And because they are privately owned the owners have to make money to keep them on the road. That is unlike govt managed public transport that is normally subsidized by govt or in other words by wanjiku and is a drain to the economy.
Impunity
#117 Posted : Friday, August 31, 2018 12:32:28 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/2/2009
Posts: 26,279
Location: Masada
hardwood wrote:
murchr wrote:
hardwood wrote:
murchr wrote:
All in all, let me remind you

JkMwatha #23 Posted : Monday, August 24, 2015 12:23:18 PM wrote:




That thing is very inadequate. Doesn't serve those living in umoja, donholm, hurlingham, roysambu etc. You may not agree with me but i believe matatus are the most efficient form of transport coz they are always available, are everywhere, cheap, efficient and convenient in terms of drop off points. It is also mwananchi owned so the money ends up in the pockets of wanjiku unlike this brt and tram monsters which iam 100% will flop due to plunder, that is if they ever materialize.


What i did not indicate is that this was the 2012 plan.

In 2014 this one was developed



And others on those links.

I think we have a different definition of available, are everywhere, cheap, efficient and convenient in terms of drop off points.

I do not want a matatu everywhere because that is chaos

I want an accessible means of transport in price not one that hikes prices when there's scarcity or when it drizzles. Efficient in timing, convenient in that I do not need to walk for 30 minutes to get to the next connection point. If I alight at Muthurwa and I want to be in Westlands, I need to catch another means of transport bus/tram at the same terminal to take me to Westlands. That is convenience.


Those who have been mayuu will tell you that in some places when you miss eg the 7.30am bus, you have to wait for 30m (sometimes in snow or rain) for the next one to arrive at 8.00am sharp. That means you get late for work or classes or have to hire a taxi. Woe unto you if phombe makes you miss the 1ast bus in the evening/night. Compare that to matatus that are always running, you miss one you get another one the next minute or second. Matatus represent efficiency in public transport. And because they are privately owned the owners have to make money to keep them on the road. That is unlike govt managed public transport that is normally subsidized by govt or in other words by wanjiku and is a drain to the economy.


Nditto
Portfolio: Sold
You know you've made it when you get a parking space for your yatcht.

murchr
#118 Posted : Friday, August 31, 2018 1:31:02 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/26/2012
Posts: 15,855
hardwood wrote:
murchr wrote:
hardwood wrote:
murchr wrote:
All in all, let me remind you

JkMwatha #23 Posted : Monday, August 24, 2015 12:23:18 PM wrote:




That thing is very inadequate. Doesn't serve those living in umoja, donholm, hurlingham, roysambu etc. You may not agree with me but i believe matatus are the most efficient form of transport coz they are always available, are everywhere, cheap, efficient and convenient in terms of drop off points. It is also mwananchi owned so the money ends up in the pockets of wanjiku unlike this brt and tram monsters which iam 100% will flop due to plunder, that is if they ever materialize.


What i did not indicate is that this was the 2012 plan.

In 2014 this one was developed



And others on those links.

I think we have a different definition of available, are everywhere, cheap, efficient and convenient in terms of drop off points.

I do not want a matatu everywhere because that is chaos

I want an accessible means of transport in price not one that hikes prices when there's scarcity or when it drizzles. Efficient in timing, convenient in that I do not need to walk for 30 minutes to get to the next connection point. If I alight at Muthurwa and I want to be in Westlands, I need to catch another means of transport bus/tram at the same terminal to take me to Westlands. That is convenience.


Those who have been mayuu will tell you that in some places when you miss eg the 7.30am bus, you have to wait for 30m (sometimes in snow or rain) for the next one to arrive at 8.00am sharp. That means you get late for work or classes or have to hire a taxi. Woe unto you if phombe makes you miss the 1ast bus in the evening/night. Compare that to matatus that are always running, you miss one you get another one the next minute or second. Matatus represent efficiency in public transport. And because they are privately owned the owners have to make money to keep them on the road. That is unlike govt managed public transport that is normally subsidized by govt or in other words by wanjiku and is a drain to the economy.



Where is guarantee that there's definitely going to a mat? The availability of a mat depends on the traffic.

Take the Syokimau train when its running efficiently- That train will take about 45mins at most to get to railway. Now try missing the train and opting to take the mat from Syokimau. How many hours will you spend on the road supposing you leave Syokimau at 7:30am?

"There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
.
simonkabz
#119 Posted : Friday, August 31, 2018 7:39:25 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/2/2007
Posts: 8,734
Location: Cameroon
Impunity wrote:
hardwood wrote:
murchr wrote:
hardwood wrote:
murchr wrote:
All in all, let me remind you

JkMwatha #23 Posted : Monday, August 24, 2015 12:23:18 PM wrote:




That thing is very inadequate. Doesn't serve those living in umoja, donholm, hurlingham, roysambu etc. You may not agree with me but i believe matatus are the most efficient form of transport coz they are always available, are everywhere, cheap, efficient and convenient in terms of drop off points. It is also mwananchi owned so the money ends up in the pockets of wanjiku unlike this brt and tram monsters which iam 100% will flop due to plunder, that is if they ever materialize.


What i did not indicate is that this was the 2012 plan.

In 2014 this one was developed



And others on those links.

I think we have a different definition of available, are everywhere, cheap, efficient and convenient in terms of drop off points.

I do not want a matatu everywhere because that is chaos

I want an accessible means of transport in price not one that hikes prices when there's scarcity or when it drizzles. Efficient in timing, convenient in that I do not need to walk for 30 minutes to get to the next connection point. If I alight at Muthurwa and I want to be in Westlands, I need to catch another means of transport bus/tram at the same terminal to take me to Westlands. That is convenience.


Those who have been mayuu will tell you that in some places when you miss eg the 7.30am bus, you have to wait for 30m (sometimes in snow or rain) for the next one to arrive at 8.00am sharp. That means you get late for work or classes or have to hire a taxi. Woe unto you if phombe makes you miss the 1ast bus in the evening/night. Compare that to matatus that are always running, you miss one you get another one the next minute or second. Matatus represent efficiency in public transport. And because they are privately owned the owners have to make money to keep them on the road. That is unlike govt managed public transport that is normally subsidized by govt or in other words by wanjiku and is a drain to the economy.


Nditto

100%. We're it not for buses and taxis, those trams are grossly inadequate and super expensive to build.

The matatu or any other shared taxi system seals all loops, is self sustaining and offers a very cheap option. Fare during the day can be as low as 10 Bob. The light rail /tram will charge upwards of 50-100 Bob all day, unless it's subsidized by the GoK. It's important to note that any mass transport system is only efficient during peak hours only.

In my observation, nothing beats smaller capacity matatu's in terms of efficiency all day long. That's why you don't see those large Scanias and UDs in the city, they can't make any money during the day. Same with the Nairobi Commuter train.

Multi pronged approach, not a one size fits all.....
TULIA.........UFUNZWE!
simonkabz
#120 Posted : Friday, August 31, 2018 7:52:08 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/2/2007
Posts: 8,734
Location: Cameroon
hardwood wrote:
wukan wrote:
simonkabz wrote:
Anybody who has extensively ventured into Murang'a or East of Naro Moru highway? Lots and lots of idle roads. What for? What for, while thousands of Nairobi an kids are going to school in gumboots? Why serve a few whereas millions suffer? I thought public expenditure is about democracy........ Democratic expenditure......... Start with the majority, and proceed with the rest.....

Why underfeed the cow that feeds Kenya 🇰🇪?


Aki this is so true of Murang'a that place has some of the best roads I've seen in Kenya proper culverts, drainage, road furniture, they connect to each other yet so idle. Compared with what i saw recently in Murang'a without a doubt Nairobi has been really neglected


Are you saying that the govt should stop building roads in muranga, taita, bungoma, siaya etc (roads that connect major trading centres) until all the vichochoros in dandora, pipeline etc are tarmacked? Why do nairobians feel so entitled?


That's not the point. It's true that we have idle, barely used rural roads where you drive for one hour and only come across a few boda bodas. In terms of prioritizing by the govt, whom does such a road serve? Ultimately we still need to do the rural roads, but let's be guided by common sense and priorities.

I'll illustrate - Kariobangi in its entirety may only require 30km or so, to fully pave all those ugly streets. At a rate of max 30m per km, only 1b will be needed to dignify the thousands of people. Apply this general estimate on all concrete slums of Nairobi and you need less than 20b to dignify millions of Kenyans. I mean, it's that cheap!!!

GoK has offered 4b to start this, and the NCC is complimenting with another 3b. It's something, but they can do more.

The problem is we've had blockheads in govt all these years hence the rotten stinking dirty killer city.
TULIA.........UFUNZWE!
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