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Sexuality at work
tom_boy
#1 Posted : Sunday, February 17, 2019 1:00:03 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 2/20/2007
Posts: 693
Are ladies justified to cry foul about lower pay for same job done? Are they accurate when they say they are discriminated against during promotions? Is the # me too campaign a load of crap?
They must find it difficult....... those who have taken authority as the truth, rather than truth as the authority. -G. Massey.
Rongla
#2 Posted : Sunday, February 17, 2019 4:06:55 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 10/3/2008
Posts: 93
tom_boy wrote:
Are ladies justified to cry foul about lower pay for same job done? Are they accurate when they say they are discriminated against during promotions? Is the # me too campaign a load of crap?


To begin with, l wouldn't call it "Sexuality at work"
tom_boy
#3 Posted : Sunday, February 17, 2019 4:15:35 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 2/20/2007
Posts: 693
Rongla wrote:
tom_boy wrote:
Are ladies justified to cry foul about lower pay for same job done? Are they accurate when they say they are discriminated against during promotions? Is the # me too campaign a load of crap?


To begin with, l wouldn't call it "Sexuality at work"



Really, what is it? Pray tell. Whatever the case, bora the question is understood. Thats what matters.
They must find it difficult....... those who have taken authority as the truth, rather than truth as the authority. -G. Massey.
tom_boy
#4 Posted : Sunday, February 17, 2019 4:53:30 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 2/20/2007
Posts: 693
I am always intrigued when women rant and rave about inequality in the work place. I think they set themselves up to fail.
They must find it difficult....... those who have taken authority as the truth, rather than truth as the authority. -G. Massey.
2012
#5 Posted : Sunday, February 17, 2019 5:30:37 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/9/2009
Posts: 6,432
Location: Nairobi
tom_boy wrote:
Are ladies justified to cry foul about lower pay for same job done? Are they accurate when they say they are discriminated against during promotions? Is the # me too campaign a load of crap?


People should be paid equally for the same job done with similarish outcome. It's not a matter of sexes. I don't think we have this problem in Kenya, or do we?

But let's also be fair, you cannot pay women footballers the same as men as they do not attract the same revenue. Maybe tennis.

Stand for something or you will fall for anything. Today's mighty oak is yesterday's nut that held its ground. Rosa Parks
tycho
#6 Posted : Sunday, February 17, 2019 5:49:06 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,484
Location: Nairobi
I think @2012 initiated this discussion under a less ambiguous 'header'?

Anyway, I'm aware of the debate about gender parity when it comes to pricing labor.

But it's become very difficult for me to say whether pricing women and men equally is necessarily a good thing. While a capitalist may wish to do that, I wonder whether a socialistic-communalist system would accept such valuation.

Firstly, prices are incentives for action. This has much to do with gender roles and values in society. If women play different roles in a society, how then can they be contained in a singular and narrowly defined concept?

So far, women have been doing plenty of unvalued and perhaps undervalued work like supporting a household even through chores. What happens if these undervalued tasks are neglected for a world of, 'what a man can do a woman can do better'?

I think both the calls for gender parity and maintaining an unappreciative status quo are misguided. And maybe, the clamor in the feminist camp is a reaction to patriarchical injustice and probably envy for the aggressor that needs a more serious conversation.
quicksand
#7 Posted : Sunday, February 17, 2019 10:01:31 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 7/5/2010
Posts: 2,013
Location: Nairobi
2012 wrote:
tom_boy wrote:
Are ladies justified to cry foul about lower pay for same job done? Are they accurate when they say they are discriminated against during promotions? Is the # me too campaign a load of crap?


People should be paid equally for the same job done with similarish outcome. It's not a matter of sexes. I don't think we have this problem in Kenya, or do we?

But let's also be fair, you cannot pay women footballers the same as men as they do not attract the same revenue. Maybe tennis.


The US women soccer players have been fiercely fighting for equal pay, at par or near to the men's. The bosses went 'you want to be treated equal? Cool, have an independent women's soccer federation, collect, manage and share your revenues'. The women absolutely refused. Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly They want a fat piece of a pie that is not commensurate to their contribution...
The push for equal pay is not without a few pockets of hypocrisy here and there...
tom_boy
#8 Posted : Sunday, February 17, 2019 10:13:58 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 2/20/2007
Posts: 693
quicksand wrote:
2012 wrote:
tom_boy wrote:
Are ladies justified to cry foul about lower pay for same job done? Are they accurate when they say they are discriminated against during promotions? Is the # me too campaign a load of crap?


People should be paid equally for the same job done with similarish outcome. It's not a matter of sexes. I don't think we have this problem in Kenya, or do we?

But let's also be fair, you cannot pay women footballers the same as men as they do not attract the same revenue. Maybe tennis.


The US women soccer players have been fiercely fighting for equal pay, at par or near to the men's. The bosses went 'you want to be treated equal? Cool, have an independent women's soccer federation, collect, manage and share your revenues'. The women absolutely refused. Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly They want a fat piece of a pie that is not commensurate to their contribution...
The push for equal pay is not without a few pockets of hypocrisy here and there...


I have a female friend, single, high achiever in an audit firm. Works hard, travels alot, long hours. All her job related travells are with other single ladies or men. All her peers who are married or with kids simply cannot keep up with the pressure. They fall naturally by the wayside when its time for promotions. She personally says she does not like to partner with married women on jobs because reasons to skip the long hours and weekend jobs will be kibao, mara child is sick, mara I need to be home by x, mara its maternity leave etc etc. She finally understood why the top is male dominated.

No beef with ladies by the way, just different roles, all important but not necessarily with similar value to an employer.
They must find it difficult....... those who have taken authority as the truth, rather than truth as the authority. -G. Massey.
2012
#9 Posted : Sunday, February 17, 2019 10:26:55 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/9/2009
Posts: 6,432
Location: Nairobi
tom_boy wrote:
quicksand wrote:
2012 wrote:
tom_boy wrote:
Are ladies justified to cry foul about lower pay for same job done? Are they accurate when they say they are discriminated against during promotions? Is the # me too campaign a load of crap?


People should be paid equally for the same job done with similarish outcome. It's not a matter of sexes. I don't think we have this problem in Kenya, or do we?

But let's also be fair, you cannot pay women footballers the same as men as they do not attract the same revenue. Maybe tennis.


The US women soccer players have been fiercely fighting for equal pay, at par or near to the men's. The bosses went 'you want to be treated equal? Cool, have an independent women's soccer federation, collect, manage and share your revenues'. The women absolutely refused. Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly They want a fat piece of a pie that is not commensurate to their contribution...
The push for equal pay is not without a few pockets of hypocrisy here and there...


I have a female friend, single, high achiever in an audit firm. Works hard, travels alot, long hours. All her job related travells are with other single ladies or men. All her peers who are married or with kids simply cannot keep up with the pressure. They fall naturally by the wayside when its time for promotions. She personally says she does not like to partner with married women on jobs because reasons to skip the long hours and weekend jobs will be kibao, mara child is sick, mara I need to be home by x, mara its maternity leave etc etc. She finally understood why the top is male dominated.

No beef with ladies by the way, just different roles, all important but not necessarily with similar value to an employer.


These are the women who enter their 50s with a lot of money and misery due to loneliness. I believe there is a sell-by-date for women, not marriage but even a kid or two. I think it's hard to find genuine love for women after 36. But I ain't no expert, just by the power of observation.

Stand for something or you will fall for anything. Today's mighty oak is yesterday's nut that held its ground. Rosa Parks
Lolest!
#10 Posted : Sunday, February 17, 2019 10:33:32 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/18/2011
Posts: 11,649
Location: Kianjokoma
tom_boy wrote:
Rongla wrote:
tom_boy wrote:
Are ladies justified to cry foul about lower pay for same job done? Are they accurate when they say they are discriminated against during promotions? Is the # me too campaign a load of crap?


To begin with, l wouldn't call it "Sexuality at work"



Really, what is it? Pray tell. Whatever the case, bora the question is understood. Thats what matters.

Sexism?
Laughing out loudly smile Applause d'oh! Sad Drool Liar Shame on you Pray
AlphDoti
#11 Posted : Monday, February 18, 2019 11:53:11 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/20/2008
Posts: 5,980
Location: Kenya


Men or women earn what they deserve. If a women earns more, then that is what she deserves, and if she earns less, that is what she deserves.

Generally (mark the word GENERALLY) women put less in the work... I have worked with men and women. I have employed men and women. And I can tell you, most women work less, they want to work less, and whenever they get a loophole they work less.

Women claim responsibility but do not take responsibility. Women are not independent... They want men to pay left right & center. That is why they want to marry professionals or rich people men. Some sadly have relationship in order to rise up at work place.

This sickness of equality is sick! How is it for equality yet men cannot get pregnant, but women can get pregnant... Men cannot breastfeed but women can breastfeed... Even among the women they cannot be equal. So why this sexuality and work.
Lolest!
#12 Posted : Tuesday, February 19, 2019 4:18:12 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/18/2011
Posts: 11,649
Location: Kianjokoma
Quote:
This sickness of equality is sick! How is it for equality yet men cannot get pregnant, but women can get pregnant... Men cannot breastfeed but women can breastfeed... Even among the women they cannot be equal. So why this sexuality and work

Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly
Laughing out loudly smile Applause d'oh! Sad Drool Liar Shame on you Pray
Metaur
#13 Posted : Thursday, April 18, 2019 7:50:14 PM
Rank: New-farer


Joined: 2/12/2019
Posts: 46
LOL at what I am reading now. I expected to see something about some harrassment at work or something like that (I suppose I wrote that world correctly). Yet I see something about unequal pay, that is also some moral harrassment ?) Or something else ?
hardwood
#14 Posted : Thursday, April 18, 2019 10:25:38 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/28/2015
Posts: 9,167
Location: Tuthu, Metumi
.
AlphDoti
#15 Posted : Thursday, April 18, 2019 10:36:33 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/20/2008
Posts: 5,980
Location: Kenya
hardwood wrote:
Pegging pay to gender is the height of stupidity. If your daughter gets her medical degree, architecture degree, law degree, BCom etc why should she be paid differently from her male classmates and yet they studied and sat for same exams and are equally qualified professionals? Me and my wife have post graduate degrees and can't imagine wifey being paid less coz she is a woman.

I pay based on output. There can be two Bcom graduates, but paid defferently, coz their efforts differ. And I'm saying GENERALLY the women put in less hours compared to men of the same qualification. Of course there are some exception, some women out smart the men, but this is exception. Generally!
hardwood
#16 Posted : Thursday, April 18, 2019 10:49:40 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/28/2015
Posts: 9,167
Location: Tuthu, Metumi
AlphDoti wrote:
hardwood wrote:
Pegging pay to gender is the height of stupidity. If your daughter gets her medical degree, architecture degree, law degree, BCom etc why should she be paid differently from her male classmates and yet they studied and sat for same exams and are equally qualified professionals? Me and my wife have post graduate degrees and can't imagine wifey being paid less coz she is a woman.

I pay based on output. There can be two Bcom graduates, but paid defferently, coz their efforts differ. And I'm saying GENERALLY the women put in less hours compared to men of the same qualification. Of course there are some exception, some women out smart the men, but this is exception. Generally!


You are wrong. Women are better and more committed workers than men. Men are always busy with side hustles, phombe and slay queens, meanwhile the female colleagues are busy on their laptops finishing and polishing their assignments.
AlphDoti
#17 Posted : Friday, April 19, 2019 11:33:33 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/20/2008
Posts: 5,980
Location: Kenya
hardwood wrote:
AlphDoti wrote:
hardwood wrote:
Pegging pay to gender is the height of stupidity. If your daughter gets her medical degree, architecture degree, law degree, BCom etc why should she be paid differently from her male classmates and yet they studied and sat for same exams and are equally qualified professionals? Me and my wife have post graduate degrees and can't imagine wifey being paid less coz she is a woman.

I pay based on output. There can be two Bcom graduates, but paid defferently, coz their efforts differ. And I'm saying GENERALLY the women put in less hours compared to men of the same qualification. Of course there are some exception, some women out smart the men, but this is exception. Generally!

You are wrong. Women are better and more committed workers than men. Men are always busy with side hustles, phombe and slay queens, meanwhile the female colleagues are busy on their laptops finishing and polishing their assignments.

Not me, experts. Check out the book "Why Men Earn More" by Dr Warren Farrell

Here is brief answer he gave
masukuma
#18 Posted : Friday, April 19, 2019 8:52:04 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,198
Location: Nairobi
AlphDoti wrote:
hardwood wrote:
AlphDoti wrote:
hardwood wrote:
Pegging pay to gender is the height of stupidity. If your daughter gets her medical degree, architecture degree, law degree, BCom etc why should she be paid differently from her male classmates and yet they studied and sat for same exams and are equally qualified professionals? Me and my wife have post graduate degrees and can't imagine wifey being paid less coz she is a woman.

I pay based on output. There can be two Bcom graduates, but paid defferently, coz their efforts differ. And I'm saying GENERALLY the women put in less hours compared to men of the same qualification. Of course there are some exception, some women out smart the men, but this is exception. Generally!

You are wrong. Women are better and more committed workers than men. Men are always busy with side hustles, phombe and slay queens, meanwhile the female colleagues are busy on their laptops finishing and polishing their assignments.

Not me, experts. Check out the book "Why Men Earn More" by Dr Warren Farrell

Here is brief answer he gave


I notice men generally have more running in their heads than your job... wako na mpingo nyingi sana
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
murchr
#19 Posted : Friday, April 19, 2019 10:03:21 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/26/2012
Posts: 14,728
AlphDoti wrote:
hardwood wrote:
AlphDoti wrote:
hardwood wrote:
Pegging pay to gender is the height of stupidity. If your daughter gets her medical degree, architecture degree, law degree, BCom etc why should she be paid differently from her male classmates and yet they studied and sat for same exams and are equally qualified professionals? Me and my wife have post graduate degrees and can't imagine wifey being paid less coz she is a woman.

I pay based on output. There can be two Bcom graduates, but paid defferently, coz their efforts differ. And I'm saying GENERALLY the women put in less hours compared to men of the same qualification. Of course there are some exception, some women out smart the men, but this is exception. Generally!

You are wrong. Women are better and more committed workers than men. Men are always busy with side hustles, phombe and slay queens, meanwhile the female colleagues are busy on their laptops finishing and polishing their assignments.

Not me, experts. Check out the book "Why Men Earn More" by Dr Warren Farrell

Here is brief answer he gave


These so called "experts" could just be chauvinists
"There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
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