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Punguza Mizigo Bill
limanika
#41 Posted : Monday, August 05, 2019 10:42:18 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 9/21/2011
Posts: 1,983
kingfisher wrote:
limanika wrote:
I think such drastic changes in the system of representation should be more consultative. If you don't consult widely and lobby for political support then you might not go far with this kind of initiative. There are already questions as to whether IEBC is properly constituted to preside over this. The courts might have to decide.


Who was to be consulted? ODM? Jubilee? Wiper? Hacha hiyo story. They are doing theirs called BBI lt them bring it on when ready.

Punguza mzigo will go all the way....

..even if you were to leave ODM/Jubilee, are there no interest groups he could have consulted to enrich the bill?

That proposal to reduce number of MPs to be based on number of counties, what's the rationale? How can Lamu with sub 300K pax have same vote as Nairobi with 4m+? I mean, we have had a system of representation last 50yrs and one person wakes up one day to change and all the 40m + Kenyans just start cheering no questions casked???
hardwood
#42 Posted : Monday, August 05, 2019 10:44:24 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/28/2015
Posts: 9,553
Location: Rodi Kopany, Homa Bay
Baba should stop attacking Aukot bill. Lets him also bring his BBI thing and anyone else to also bring his so that kenyans can choose the best way forward. Baba should be explaining to us why his bill is better and not demonising aukot's.
limanika
#43 Posted : Monday, August 05, 2019 11:12:54 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 9/21/2011
Posts: 1,983
hardwood wrote:
Baba should stop attacking Aukot bill. Lets him also bring his BBI thing and anyone else to also bring his so that kenyans can choose the best way forward. Baba should be explaining to us why his bill is better and not demonising aukot's.

We may have situation where I might like some proposals in Aukot Bill and not like others, and ditto for BBI. So how do i vote? And assuming Aukot bill passes, what if he comes up with another bill say after 6 months to change same things. Do ee have any guide on these things. We should stop the talk of referendum first and create a law to guide the process

Lolest!
#44 Posted : Monday, August 05, 2019 12:21:23 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/18/2011
Posts: 11,783
Location: Kianjokoma
Quote:
That proposal to reduce number of MPs to be based on number of counties, what's the rationale? How can Lamu with sub 300K pax have same vote as Nairobi with 4m+? I mean, we have had a system of representation last 50yrs and one person wakes up one day to change and all the 40m + Kenyans just start cheering no questions asked???

This here is the reason I will vote NO in punguza mzigo. People need to understand the role of parliament

Laughing out loudly smile Applause d'oh! Sad Drool Liar Shame on you Pray
Angelica _ann
#45 Posted : Monday, August 05, 2019 1:30:33 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/7/2012
Posts: 10,995
Lolest! wrote:
Quote:
That proposal to reduce number of MPs to be based on number of counties, what's the rationale? How can Lamu with sub 300K pax have same vote as Nairobi with 4m+? I mean, we have had a system of representation last 50yrs and one person wakes up one day to change and all the 40m + Kenyans just start cheering no questions asked???

This here is the reason I will vote NO in punguza mzigo. People need to understand the role of parliament



Equal representation. We are all Kenyans.
In the business world, everyone is paid in two coins - cash and experience. Take the experience first; the cash will come later - H Geneen
Lolest!
#46 Posted : Monday, August 05, 2019 1:42:00 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/18/2011
Posts: 11,783
Location: Kianjokoma
Angelica _ann wrote:
Lolest! wrote:
Quote:
That proposal to reduce number of MPs to be based on number of counties, what's the rationale? How can Lamu with sub 300K pax have same vote as Nairobi with 4m+? I mean, we have had a system of representation last 50yrs and one person wakes up one day to change and all the 40m + Kenyans just start cheering no questions asked???

This here is the reason I will vote NO in punguza mzigo. People need to understand the role of parliament



Equal representation. We are all Kenyans.

It should be EQUITABLE representation
Laughing out loudly smile Applause d'oh! Sad Drool Liar Shame on you Pray
tycho
#47 Posted : Monday, August 05, 2019 2:33:32 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,580
Location: Nairobi
If there were to be consultations then the consultation should have been made to an appropriate simulator and multidisciplinary committee to help formulate potential bills that fit well and then from a selected class, work out the best bill by pay off/cost value.

We can no longer isolate political processes from the economic ones. And in this case the basic structure of the economy is how individuals meet their hungers under the constraints of communal living.

Such thinking would direct us more in the way of 'positive liberty' than the negative liberty concepts implied by the Aukot Bill.
thuks
#48 Posted : Monday, August 05, 2019 3:35:34 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 10/8/2008
Posts: 1,527
Lolest! wrote:
Angelica _ann wrote:
Lolest! wrote:
Quote:
That proposal to reduce number of MPs to be based on number of counties, what's the rationale? How can Lamu with sub 300K pax have same vote as Nairobi with 4m+? I mean, we have had a system of representation last 50yrs and one person wakes up one day to change and all the 40m + Kenyans just start cheering no questions asked???

This here is the reason I will vote NO in punguza mzigo. People need to understand the role of parliament



Equal representation. We are all Kenyans.

It should be EQUITABLE representation

Equality or equity by performance of previous 'representatives' have no benefit to the represented majority
I care!
murchr
#49 Posted : Monday, August 05, 2019 4:03:45 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/26/2012
Posts: 15,010
This one died when Baba called it "ati punguza gunia". Dead on arrival
"There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
.
thuks
#50 Posted : Monday, August 05, 2019 6:13:31 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 10/8/2008
Posts: 1,527
murchr wrote:
This one died when Baba called it "ati punguza gunia". Dead on arrival

Only bills supported by the political heavyweights can go through. Unfortunately, it's never about the lowly in our country
I care!
alma1
#51 Posted : Tuesday, August 06, 2019 3:19:37 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/19/2015
Posts: 2,560
Location: hapo
Let us be honest.

If punguza mizigo went to the masses right now, there will be no need to campaign. It would pass at 80% levels.

What I see here is sour grapes. Odomo could not even garner 20k signatures. Njumbiree can't even say sorry for not giving us laptops.

There is a law about how to change the constitution. It is right there. You get signatures and it moves to the MCA's. The MCA's pass it and we let the people decide.

This BBI is not anchored on any laws. Just a bunch of fat overpaid politicians who think they know what we want.

BBI shall fail.

I have said before, Ruto needs to outgrow these cartels. It's simple, vote for Punguza Mzigo and lets see what these so called royal families shall do about it.

Ati consultations? What more consultations do you need than 1.2 million Kenyans deciding that they like Punguza Mzigo.

If the royal families are soooo confident, let them bring here for us to vote for it. Watakiona.
Thieves are not good people. Tumeelewana?
thuks
#52 Posted : Tuesday, August 06, 2019 9:38:36 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 10/8/2008
Posts: 1,527
alma1 wrote:
Let us be honest.

If punguza mizigo went to the masses right now, there will be no need to campaign. It would pass at 80% levels.

What I see here is sour grapes. Odomo could not even garner 20k signatures. Njumbiree can't even say sorry for not giving us laptops.

There is a law about how to change the constitution. It is right there. You get signatures and it moves to the MCA's. The MCA's pass it and we let the people decide.

This BBI is not anchored on any laws. Just a bunch of fat overpaid politicians who think they know what we want.

BBI shall fail.

I have said before, Ruto needs to outgrow these cartels. It's simple, vote for Punguza Mzigo and lets see what these so called royal families shall do about it.

Ati consultations? What more consultations do you need than 1.2 million Kenyans deciding that they like Punguza Mzigo.

If the royal families are soooo confident, let them bring here for us to vote for it. Watakiona.


They know this hence they'll fight tooth and nail and ensure people don't get the chance to decide
I care!
kingfisher
#53 Posted : Wednesday, August 07, 2019 2:06:13 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 4/9/2008
Posts: 2,814
thuks wrote:
alma1 wrote:
Let us be honest.

If punguza mizigo went to the masses right now, there will be no need to campaign. It would pass at 80% levels.

What I see here is sour grapes. Odomo could not even garner 20k signatures. Njumbiree can't even say sorry for not giving us laptops.

There is a law about how to change the constitution. It is right there. You get signatures and it moves to the MCA's. The MCA's pass it and we let the people decide.

This BBI is not anchored on any laws. Just a bunch of fat overpaid politicians who think they know what we want.

BBI shall fail.

I have said before, Ruto needs to outgrow these cartels. It's simple, vote for Punguza Mzigo and lets see what these so called royal families shall do about it.

Ati consultations? What more consultations do you need than 1.2 million Kenyans deciding that they like Punguza Mzigo.

If the royal families are soooo confident, let them bring here for us to vote for it. Watakiona.


They know this hence they'll fight tooth and nail and ensure people don't get the chance to decide


Amendment by popular initiative.
257. (1) An amendment to this Constitution may be proposed by a popular initiative signed by at least one million registered voters.
(2) A popular initiative for an amendment to this Constitution may be in the form of a general suggestion or a formulated draft Bill.
(3) If a popular initiative is in the form of a general suggestion, the promoters of that popular initiative shall formulate it into a draft Bill.
(4) The promoters of a popular initiative shall deliver the draft Bill and the supporting signatures to the Independent Electoral and Boundaries Commission, which shall verify that the initiative is supported by at least one million registered voters.
(5) If the Independent Electoral and Boundaries Commission is satisfied that the initiative meets the requirements of this Article, the Commission shall submit the draft Bill to each county assembly for consideration within three months after the date it was submitted by
the Commission.
(6) If a county assembly approves the draft Bill within three months after the date it was submitted by the Commission, the speaker of the county assembly shall deliver a copy of the draft Bill jointly to the Speakers of the two Houses of Parliament, with a certificate that the county assembly has approved it.
(7) If a draft Bill has been approved by a majority of the county assemblies, it shall be introduced in Parliament without delay.
(8) A Bill under this Article is passed by Parliament if supported by a majority of the members of each House.
(9) If Parliament passes the Bill, it shall be submitted to the President for assent in accordance with Articles 256 (4) and (5).
(10) If either House of Parliament fails to pass the Bill, or the Bill relates to a matter mentioned in 255 (1), the proposed amendment shall be submitted to the people in a referendum.
(11) Article 255 (2) applies, with any necessary modifications, to a referendum under clause (10).

We are at 257(5) Thing does not require that consultation crap. They think collecting REAL 1,000,000 signatures from REAL registered voters is child play?

And can these BBI fellas tell us what they understand by the term popular initiative. Are you consulting and convincing voters when asking for the signatures? Warudi shule!
When I have money, I get rid of it quickly, lest it find a way into my heart.
kingfisher
#54 Posted : Thursday, August 08, 2019 7:59:00 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 4/9/2008
Posts: 2,814
Quote:
https://www.nation.co.ke/news/MPs-must-explain-costly-Nashville-trip-Raila/1056-5227134-fk8ktn/index.html



I don't need any other reason to vote for it. We can increase the constituencies later if need be!!
When I have money, I get rid of it quickly, lest it find a way into my heart.
Taurrus
#55 Posted : Friday, August 09, 2019 1:19:52 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 8/25/2015
Posts: 779
Location: Kite
kingfisher wrote:
thuks wrote:
alma1 wrote:
Let us be honest.

If punguza mizigo went to the masses right now, there will be no need to campaign. It would pass at 80% levels.

What I see here is sour grapes. Odomo could not even garner 20k signatures. Njumbiree can't even say sorry for not giving us laptops.

There is a law about how to change the constitution. It is right there. You get signatures and it moves to the MCA's. The MCA's pass it and we let the people decide.

This BBI is not anchored on any laws. Just a bunch of fat overpaid politicians who think they know what we want.

BBI shall fail.

I have said before, Ruto needs to outgrow these cartels. It's simple, vote for Punguza Mzigo and lets see what these so called royal families shall do about it.

Ati consultations? What more consultations do you need than 1.2 million Kenyans deciding that they like Punguza Mzigo.

If the royal families are soooo confident, let them bring here for us to vote for it. Watakiona.


They know this hence they'll fight tooth and nail and ensure people don't get the chance to decide


Amendment by popular initiative.
257. (1) An amendment to this Constitution may be proposed by a popular initiative signed by at least one million registered voters.
(2) A popular initiative for an amendment to this Constitution may be in the form of a general suggestion or a formulated draft Bill.
(3) If a popular initiative is in the form of a general suggestion, the promoters of that popular initiative shall formulate it into a draft Bill.
(4) The promoters of a popular initiative shall deliver the draft Bill and the supporting signatures to the Independent Electoral and Boundaries Commission, which shall verify that the initiative is supported by at least one million registered voters.
(5) If the Independent Electoral and Boundaries Commission is satisfied that the initiative meets the requirements of this Article, the Commission shall submit the draft Bill to each county assembly for consideration within three months after the date it was submitted by
the Commission.
(6) If a county assembly approves the draft Bill within three months after the date it was submitted by the Commission, the speaker of the county assembly shall deliver a copy of the draft Bill jointly to the Speakers of the two Houses of Parliament, with a certificate that the county assembly has approved it.
(7) If a draft Bill has been approved by a majority of the county assemblies, it shall be introduced in Parliament without delay.
(8) A Bill under this Article is passed by Parliament if supported by a majority of the members of each House.
(9) If Parliament passes the Bill, it shall be submitted to the President for assent in accordance with Articles 256 (4) and (5).
(10) If either House of Parliament fails to pass the Bill, or the Bill relates to a matter mentioned in 255 (1), the proposed amendment shall be submitted to the people in a referendum.
(11) Article 255 (2) applies, with any necessary modifications, to a referendum under clause (10).

We are at 257(5) Thing does not require that consultation crap. They think collecting REAL 1,000,000 signatures from REAL registered voters is child play?

And can these BBI fellas tell us what they understand by the term popular initiative. Are you consulting and convincing voters when asking for the signatures? Warudi shule!


I didn't see requirement for signature verification only registered voter. I did it online and don't remember signing anything! 1.2 Million voters registered we did it!
kingfisher
#56 Posted : Friday, August 09, 2019 2:15:53 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 4/9/2008
Posts: 2,814
Taurrus wrote:
kingfisher wrote:
thuks wrote:
alma1 wrote:
Let us be honest.

If punguza mizigo went to the masses right now, there will be no need to campaign. It would pass at 80% levels.

What I see here is sour grapes. Odomo could not even garner 20k signatures. Njumbiree can't even say sorry for not giving us laptops.

There is a law about how to change the constitution. It is right there. You get signatures and it moves to the MCA's. The MCA's pass it and we let the people decide.

This BBI is not anchored on any laws. Just a bunch of fat overpaid politicians who think they know what we want.

BBI shall fail.

I have said before, Ruto needs to outgrow these cartels. It's simple, vote for Punguza Mzigo and lets see what these so called royal families shall do about it.

Ati consultations? What more consultations do you need than 1.2 million Kenyans deciding that they like Punguza Mzigo.

If the royal families are soooo confident, let them bring here for us to vote for it. Watakiona.


They know this hence they'll fight tooth and nail and ensure people don't get the chance to decide


Amendment by popular initiative.
257. (1) An amendment to this Constitution may be proposed by a popular initiative signed by at least one million registered voters.
(2) A popular initiative for an amendment to this Constitution may be in the form of a general suggestion or a formulated draft Bill.
(3) If a popular initiative is in the form of a general suggestion, the promoters of that popular initiative shall formulate it into a draft Bill.
(4) The promoters of a popular initiative shall deliver the draft Bill and the supporting signatures to the Independent Electoral and Boundaries Commission, which shall verify that the initiative is supported by at least one million registered voters.
(5) If the Independent Electoral and Boundaries Commission is satisfied that the initiative meets the requirements of this Article, the Commission shall submit the draft Bill to each county assembly for consideration within three months after the date it was submitted by
the Commission.
(6) If a county assembly approves the draft Bill within three months after the date it was submitted by the Commission, the speaker of the county assembly shall deliver a copy of the draft Bill jointly to the Speakers of the two Houses of Parliament, with a certificate that the county assembly has approved it.
(7) If a draft Bill has been approved by a majority of the county assemblies, it shall be introduced in Parliament without delay.
(8) A Bill under this Article is passed by Parliament if supported by a majority of the members of each House.
(9) If Parliament passes the Bill, it shall be submitted to the President for assent in accordance with Articles 256 (4) and (5).
(10) If either House of Parliament fails to pass the Bill, or the Bill relates to a matter mentioned in 255 (1), the proposed amendment shall be submitted to the people in a referendum.
(11) Article 255 (2) applies, with any necessary modifications, to a referendum under clause (10).

We are at 257(5) Thing does not require that consultation crap. They think collecting REAL 1,000,000 signatures from REAL registered voters is child play?

And can these BBI fellas tell us what they understand by the term popular initiative. Are you consulting and convincing voters when asking for the signatures? Warudi shule!


I didn't see requirement for signature verification only registered voter. I did it online and don't remember signing anything! 1.2 Million voters registered we did it!

There was a place to sign on that online form
When I have money, I get rid of it quickly, lest it find a way into my heart.
FRM2011
#57 Posted : Friday, August 09, 2019 3:58:06 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 11/5/2010
Posts: 2,403
Lolest! wrote:
Quote:
That proposal to reduce number of MPs to be based on number of counties, what's the rationale? How can Lamu with sub 300K pax have same vote as Nairobi with 4m+? I mean, we have had a system of representation last 50yrs and one person wakes up one day to change and all the 40m + Kenyans just start cheering no questions asked???

This here is the reason I will vote NO in punguza mzigo. People need to understand the role of parliament




Every day I get the impression majority of Kenyans even wazuans here don't understand our new katiba.
Parliament is the most powerful institution created under the new constitution.

If the president today appointed me to be Kenya's ambassador to South Africa, I would not celebrate yet. Until the foreign affairs committee are done with their vetting and approve my appointment. If they say no, that is the end. That goes for any presidential appointment.

If the finance and budget committees refuse to allocate money for the extension of the highway from Kenol to Marua (Nyeri), that will be the end of the matter. This is the project Uhuru wants to use to silence critics who have been accusing him of abandoning his people.

The president is powerless when dealing with JSC, but the legal affairs committee is not. If this committee wanted a certian judge out, it will have its way.

The president can't touch the IGP. But the internal security committee can force the national police service commission to act.

Now Aukot wants to make sure Kiambu with its 2.5M residents will have 2 votes same as Samburu Turkana and Lamu.
murchr
#58 Posted : Friday, August 09, 2019 4:48:20 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/26/2012
Posts: 15,010
FRM2011 wrote:
Lolest! wrote:
Quote:
That proposal to reduce number of MPs to be based on number of counties, what's the rationale? How can Lamu with sub 300K pax have same vote as Nairobi with 4m+? I mean, we have had a system of representation last 50yrs and one person wakes up one day to change and all the 40m + Kenyans just start cheering no questions asked???

This here is the reason I will vote NO in punguza mzigo. People need to understand the role of parliament




Every day I get the impression majority of Kenyans even wazuans here don't understand our new katiba.
Parliament is the most powerful institution created under the new constitution.

If the president today appointed me to be Kenya's ambassador to South Africa, I would not celebrate yet. Until the foreign affairs committee are done with their vetting and approve my appointment. If they say no, that is the end. That goes for any presidential appointment.

If the finance and budget committees refuse to allocate money for the extension of the highway from Kenol to Marua (Nyeri), that will be the end of the matter. This is the project Uhuru wants to use to silence critics who have been accusing him of abandoning his people.

The president is powerless when dealing with JSC, but the legal affairs committee is not. If this committee wanted a certian judge out, it will have its way.

The president can't touch the IGP. But the internal security committee can force the national police service commission to act.

Now Aukot wants to make sure Kiambu with its 2.5M residents will have 2 votes same as Samburu Turkana and Lamu.


That is unrepresentative.

The main reason census are carried out around the world is so that a citizenry can know how many people will represent them in that law making part of govt.

In the US as an example, congressional maps are drawn according to the number of people there. That is why you see Trump trying so hard to bring in the citizen question in the 2020 census. With the number goes budget allocations etc etc

A larger part of Samburu is desert land, so who would the MP be representing? Spiders?

I told you Punguza gunia(as baba called it) is dead.
"There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
.
alma1
#59 Posted : Saturday, August 10, 2019 9:05:14 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/19/2015
Posts: 2,560
Location: hapo
@FRM2011 na wengine wako na tabia kama zako

No one has said that after punguza mzigo, there shall no corruption. Babayao and co will continue stealing with without BBI or punguza mzigo.


I can see political parties trying to dance around this bill. All they want us to to is vote for Raila to become prime minister and Lot becomes president...Absolutely no checks and balances.

I am a citizen. Even worse, 3 Mpigs and 2 governors are people we went to karumaindo with.

They are now all BBi and want more money. I think I reminded one of them that he was still stupid in campus..Alafu he blocked me.

Forget about imaginary scenarios.

Constitutions are meant to solve CURRENT problems which SHALL affect our kids.

Our current problem is not laaaira or brookside or Lot.

Let them steal but that's not the issue.

I don't want stupid mpigs going to Amelikaaa to learn things they can google.

I want you FRM2011 to suffer in your gishagi because of your choices.....Yet my MCA is sharper than yours.


And heck, I want all Mpigs shot and decapitated leo jioni at 6pm Sato.

Bullshit.

Coming from Odomo and Njumbiree. This one shall pass.
Thieves are not good people. Tumeelewana?
2012
#60 Posted : Saturday, August 10, 2019 9:21:43 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/9/2009
Posts: 6,564
Location: Nairobi
Lolest! wrote:
Angelica _ann wrote:
Lolest! wrote:
Quote:
That proposal to reduce number of MPs to be based on number of counties, what's the rationale? How can Lamu with sub 300K pax have same vote as Nairobi with 4m+? I mean, we have had a system of representation last 50yrs and one person wakes up one day to change and all the 40m + Kenyans just start cheering no questions asked???

This here is the reason I will vote NO in punguza mzigo. People need to understand the role of parliament



Equal representation. We are all Kenyans.

It should be EQUITABLE representation


I would rather this 'Punguza mizigo' than anything that 'ongeza mizigo' BBI group of politicians is coming up with. I always say that the amendments must consider the Ndungu report on land and the Truth and Justice commission findings on injustices and atrocities committed in Kenya since independence without which, we are solving nothing.

Stand for something or you will fall for anything. Today's mighty oak is yesterday's nut that held its ground. Rosa Parks
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