Home SK - Stocks, Property, Investment Chamas - Investment Groups BIZ - Small Business Soko - Market Wazua Life About Wazua
SIGN IN REGISTER
Tuesday, Oct 22, 2019
Club SK
To contribute to these and use other features, please register.
LATEST DISCUSSIONS
Putin wants a piece of Africa [4]
Webb Ellis cup 2019 [15]
JKIA-James Gichuru rd Express way project [25]
Kefir grains [82]
Fidel Odinga RIP [594]
Dunia imepasuka... [125]
Qusetions about @mugundaman [27]
Mobile Banking Fraud [7]
Rais Magufuli [456]
Happy Mashujaa day 2018 [9]
English Premier League 2019-2020 [83]
Monica Kimani [745]
That strange disease at Starehe Girls [5]
How many Wazooans does this post describe? [6]
Rumba Music joint/pub [5]
 
Forum Jump








Welcome Guest Search | Active Topics | Log In

3 Pages<123
Robert Mugabe
Lolest!
#41 Posted : Monday, September 09, 2019 8:13:24 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/18/2011
Posts: 11,737
Location: Kianjokoma
It's odd. But if one is to fault Mugabe for land redistribution, then they should be OK with Jomo and Mandela.

The converse is true.
Laughing out loudly smile Applause d'oh! Sad Drool Liar Shame on you Pray
hardwood
#42 Posted : Monday, September 09, 2019 10:30:29 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/28/2015
Posts: 9,488
Location: Rodi Kopany, Homa Bay
@radiomast, your link hapo juu answers all your questions. The issue was complicated and had many players. The Zimbabwe govt had to do something to prevent a coup. The dissidents also killed alot of people who refused to cooperate with them. The apartheid SA govt was also undertaking gukurahundi murders via ZAPU dissidents to weaken mugabe govt..

Quote:
The gukurahundi crisis involved a combination of the following: Ex-ZIPRA guerillas, Ex-ZANLA guerillas, Ndebele dissidents, Super-ZAPU, Five Brigade, ZAPU and the Zimbabwe National Army (ZNA) of the government of Zimbabwe.

Ex-ZIPRA guerillas who became dissidents deserted the Zimbabwe National Army and took to the bush again on allegations of ethnic persecutions that targeted them within the army.

Mugabe accused ZAPU of sending trains from Zambia laden with weapons of war for which Kenneth Kaunda, the then Zambia President, apologised. Dabengwa (ZAPU) admits that these weapons were offloaded from Dar es Salaam in Tanzania, and that they had been given to them as a gift from the Soviet Union that they could not reject but as ZAPU, they had plans to surrender all these weapons to the new Zimbabwe National Army (ZNA). However, small weapons were taken to Gwayi and big tanks were transported to Esigodini where they would be kept under the supervision of former Rhodesians.

Any government, as that of ZANU-PF did, could have sufficient reason to suspect an armed insurrection given the political and military volatility that engulfed the early post-liberation era in Zimbabwe.

.....

......

The diversity in the dissident community-ex-ZIPRA cadres, persecuted youths, Super-ZAPU, ZANU-PF pseudo dissidents-were responsible for the mayhem in the countryside involving the murder of 33 white commercial farmers and civilians classified as sell-outs, robberies on buses and stores and rape.

In an interview with a British correspondent, Joshua Nkomo held the view that gukurahundi was not a tribal war and that it would be a mistake for anyone to regard it as such: rather it was a political issue.

The British government considered the gukurahundi as an inevitable political dynamic and hoped that sooner rather than later the affected regions would return to normalcy.

There were loose associations of ex-ZIPRA guerillas who became dissidents and were responsible for murder, assault, mutilation and destruction of property. ZAPU had no control over these renegades. There were ex-Rhodesians who collaborated with South Africa to undermine the newly attained political independence in Zimbabwe. They still were bent on acts of sabotage to destabilise the country in the same way South Africa was doing to Mozambique and Angola, exploiting the deep-seated traditional hostilities between ZANU-PF and ZAPU with the hope of politicising ethnicity in areas affected by gukurahundi. Some of these operatives had been drafted into the ZNA and acted beyond bounds in a bid to discredit the Five Brigade by making it solely liable for accountability.

The South African Apartheid regime sponsored a clandestine Super ZAPU that terrorised the greater part of Matabeleland South, equipping it with the most brutal forms of torture and murder resulting in the killing of people indiscriminately and creating despondency amongst eye-witnesses.

radiomast
#43 Posted : Tuesday, September 10, 2019 4:23:43 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 2/15/2018
Posts: 288
hardwood wrote:
@radiomast, your link hapo juu answers all your questions. The issue was complicated and had many players. The Zimbabwe govt had to do something to prevent a coup. The dissidents also killed alot of people who refused to cooperate with them. The apartheid SA govt was also undertaking gukurahundi murders via ZAPU dissidents to weaken mugabe govt..



@Hardwood
The general admitted that Gukurahundi was about hatred between Ndebele and Mashona.
Why are you ignoring this?

It had little to do with weapons. In fact Nkomo had told his soldiers to lay down their weapons and they did.

Also please explain why Mugabe's goons went around raping every woman in sight. What does this have to do with searching for weapons

Lolest!
#44 Posted : Tuesday, September 10, 2019 7:01:02 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/18/2011
Posts: 11,737
Location: Kianjokoma
Laughing out loudly smile Applause d'oh! Sad Drool Liar Shame on you Pray
Lolest!
#45 Posted : Tuesday, September 10, 2019 7:14:11 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/18/2011
Posts: 11,737
Location: Kianjokoma

Laughing out loudly smile Applause d'oh! Sad Drool Liar Shame on you Pray
radiomast
#46 Posted : Friday, September 13, 2019 11:55:02 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 2/15/2018
Posts: 288
I sometimes wonder what is wrong with Mwafrika leaders. Mugabe built this opulent mansion at a time when half of Zimbabweans were starving and going without medical care and jobless.





radiomast
#47 Posted : Friday, September 13, 2019 11:57:07 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 2/15/2018
Posts: 288
Lolest! wrote:


Most of what you've written about Mandela on land could be written about Jomo Kenyatta. Only that there was the Settlement Fund Trustees money(British government loan to buy off White farmers in Kenya).

Also, Kenya was getting independent in 63, SA didn't get independent in '94, just black majority rule. SA was independent from 1910 and was recognized as succh internationally, even fighting on the allies' side in the World Wars!



Equating Jomo Kenyatta to Mandela Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly
Some of you should become standup comedians
hardwood
#48 Posted : Saturday, September 14, 2019 12:42:40 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/28/2015
Posts: 9,488
Location: Rodi Kopany, Homa Bay
radiomast wrote:
I sometimes wonder what is wrong with Mwafrika leaders. Mugabe built this opulent mansion at a time when half of Zimbabweans were starving and going without medical care and jobless.

https://t792ae.c2.acecdn...e-Blue-Roof-Funeral.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/me...rmat=jpg&name=large



So what? Sonko built this home when his voters were living in slums, jobless and without healthcare. Deal with kenya problems first before going to zimbabwe.








Lolest!
#49 Posted : Saturday, September 14, 2019 10:42:06 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/18/2011
Posts: 11,737
Location: Kianjokoma
radiomast wrote:
Lolest! wrote:


Most of what you've written about Mandela on land could be written about Jomo Kenyatta. Only that there was the Settlement Fund Trustees money(British government loan to buy off White farmers in Kenya).

Also, Kenya was getting independent in 63, SA didn't get independent in '94, just black majority rule. SA was independent from 1910 and was recognized as succh internationally, even fighting on the allies' side in the World Wars!



Equating Jomo Kenyatta to Mandela Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly
Some of you should become standup comedians

Just ask for clarification where you miss the point.

My point is on land expropriation only. Not looting & tribalism and keeping a beard, length of rule,sale of ivory, love for beer, philandering or any other thing we may want to compare these three.

It's clear who is like the other in expropriation
Laughing out loudly smile Applause d'oh! Sad Drool Liar Shame on you Pray
radiomast
#50 Posted : Monday, September 16, 2019 6:36:10 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 2/15/2018
Posts: 288
hardwood wrote:



So what? Sonko built this home when his voters were living in slums, jobless and without healthcare. Deal with kenya problems first before going to zimbabwe.



Did Sonko use taxpayer money or money meant for public use?
Mugabe clearly did. And that is what is fundamentally wrong with African leaders.

And your point about dealing with Kenya's problems is irrelevant. There is nothing we as wazuans can do to fix any problems. We can only discuss them here. That is the point of this forum.
radiomast
#51 Posted : Monday, September 16, 2019 7:27:16 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 2/15/2018
Posts: 288
Lolest! wrote:


My point is on land expropriation only. Not looting & tribalism and keeping a beard, length of rule,sale of ivory, love for beer, philandering or any other thing we may want to compare these three.

It's clear who is like the other in expropriation


Putting Mandela and Kenyatta in the same sentence when it comes to land expropriation is a crime.

There is a New York Times article that enscapsulates how kenyatta dealt with the issue of land. I am copying texts verbatim from that article:

1. Mr. Kenyatta wanted to sell the British settler lands to Kenyans of means, and to concentrate political power in the presidency.
2. Mr. Kenyatta set up a buyback scheme, which meant the land “went more or less to the political elites,”
3. Mr. Kenyatta brokered land deals that benefited his fellow Kikuyus, and his own family.
4. His government blocked repeated efforts by Parliament to limit land ownership,
5. His family amassed vast tracts of land, tea and coffee plantations, and stakes in ruby mines, among other riches, according to a 1978 dossier that the C.I.A. declassified last year.


So now I am seeking clarification as you requested. How exactly are Mandela and Kenyatta similar in terms of land expropriation?
Lolest!
#52 Posted : Monday, September 16, 2019 7:50:12 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/18/2011
Posts: 11,737
Location: Kianjokoma
radiomast wrote:
Lolest! wrote:


My point is on land expropriation only. Not looting & tribalism and keeping a beard, length of rule,sale of ivory, love for beer, philandering or any other thing we may want to compare these three.

It's clear who is like the other in expropriation


Putting Mandela and Kenyatta in the same sentence when it comes to land expropriation is a crime.

There is a New York Times article that enscapsulates how kenyatta dealt with the issue of land. I am copying texts verbatim from that article:

1. Mr. Kenyatta wanted to sell the British settler lands to Kenyans of means, and to concentrate political power in the presidency.
2. Mr. Kenyatta set up a buyback scheme, which meant the land “went more or less to the political elites,”
3. Mr. Kenyatta brokered land deals that benefited his fellow Kikuyus, and his own family.
4. His government blocked repeated efforts by Parliament to limit land ownership,
5. His family amassed vast tracts of land, tea and coffee plantations, and stakes in ruby mines, among other riches, according to a 1978 dossier that the C.I.A. declassified last year.


So now I am seeking clarification as you requested. How exactly are Mandela and Kenyatta similar in terms of land expropriation?

Very simple. They did not believe in expropriation without compensation. Let nobody lie. Jomo's resettlement plan, with all its ills still settled many Africans.

There was a plan to go the Mugabe way by many nationalists and kick out all white farmers

By the way, today, lots of SA people are thinking like lots of you Kenyans. That Mandela sold them out to the whites.

So was Jomo a tribalist, self seeking guy? Yes.
Laughing out loudly smile Applause d'oh! Sad Drool Liar Shame on you Pray
Users browsing this topic
Guest
3 Pages<123
Forum Jump  
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.

Home | . .. Investor | .. . Groups | .. . SME | . . . Market | .. . Club SK | . ..... About Wazua | . .. Search | . ..Sitemap | . ..Support | . ..Disclaimer | . ..Privacy Policy | . ..Terms of Use | . .. Contact Us
Copyright © 2019 Wazua.co.ke. All Rights Reserved.