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Why I reject the BBI
hardwood
#1 Posted : Friday, October 25, 2019 5:40:10 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/28/2015
Posts: 9,553
Location: Rodi Kopany, Homa Bay
1. Democracy should be about one man one vote, not some mpigs sitting in parliament to choose the leader, or some unelected electoral college sitting somewhere to select the leader. We have seen the MCA madness in the counties and we wouldnt want such shennanigans to creep into bunge.
2. The proposed parliamentary system is upuss since representation in parliament is skewed against some regions with some constituencies having double or triple the population of others. So saying that the leader of the party with most seats in parliament ie MPs will become the PM is very unfair to some regions. It would only work if all constituencies have same number of voters.
3. Sharing of the top seats among the five big tribes and distributing the rest among the other tribes is taking the country back to the stone age.
FRM2011
#2 Posted : Friday, October 25, 2019 7:28:54 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 11/5/2010
Posts: 2,403

Why don't you wait for the report first ?

Don't be like the tanga tanga crew who are up in arms yet they have no idea what is in the BBI report.

We can only make intelligent guesses.

One that I know is the health services commission. This was proposed by all players in the health sector and even the PSC.
Njunge
#3 Posted : Friday, October 25, 2019 8:18:53 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/7/2007
Posts: 897
hardwood wrote:
1. Democracy should be about one man one vote, not some mpigs sitting in parliament to choose the leader, or some unelected electoral college sitting somewhere to select the leader. Also we have seen the MCA madness in the counties and we wouldnt want such shennanigans to creep into bunge.
2. The proposed parliamentary system is upuss since representation in parliament is skewed against some regions with some constituencies having double or triple the population of others. So saying that the leader of the party with most seats in parliament ie MPs will become the PM is very unfair to some regions. It would only work if all constituencies have same number of voters.
3. Sharing of the top seats among the five big tribes and distributing the rest among the other tribes is taking the country back to the stone age.


If there is such a proposal,then Uhuraila will have handed Ruto a big hardwood cane with which to work their buttocks...and yes,they will be thrashed properly.I for one cannot trust anybody else with my vote least of all an Mpig and as much as I don't like that thief but circumstances would, for one, force me to be on his side!....anyway,I wait!
murchr
#4 Posted : Friday, October 25, 2019 8:20:42 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/26/2012
Posts: 15,008
That report is useless. Going no where
"There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
.
hardwood
#5 Posted : Friday, October 25, 2019 9:22:26 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/28/2015
Posts: 9,553
Location: Rodi Kopany, Homa Bay
FRM2011 wrote:

Why don't you wait for the report first ?

Don't be like the tanga tanga crew who are up in arms yet they have no idea what is in the BBI report.

We can only make intelligent guesses.

One that I know is the health services commission. This was proposed by all players in the health sector and even the PSC.


The contents of the BBI are out there. And it's not about tangatanga or kieleweke or ohuru or looto or baba or weta. It's about me as a Kenyan and my views about how we should run the country.

https://www.the-star.co....politicians-in-cabinet/

Quote:
The BBI has recommended a parliamentary system with a ceremonial president.

The President would, however, remain the head of government and the commander-in-chief of defense forces.

In what is likely to shake the country's political landscape, the PM will be elected by Parliament from the party that wins majority seats, shifting the battle for executive power to Parliament.

To address the question of exclusivity, the 14-member panel proposes that the president, deputy president, the prime minister and the two deputies should be shared out by at least five different tribes.

However, communities that miss out on the big five plum jobs at the apex of power would share ministerial positions either based on tribes or regions to give the cabinet a national face.

The cabinet would be appointed from among members of Parliament.

According to the BBI team's findings, the accumulation of power among the few Kenyan tribes has disadvantaged small communities who feel excluded from government, hence brewing ethnic polarization.

“What we are recommending is what Kenyans, political formations and various state agencies asked for. We are not adding anything. Most Kenyans said they wanted a parliamentary system with an expanded executive,” a member of the BBI told the Star in confidence.

He went on: “After looking at the views submitted to us, we are convinced that a parliamentary system is the way to go.”




2012
#6 Posted : Friday, October 25, 2019 9:26:25 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/9/2009
Posts: 6,564
Location: Nairobi
Njunge wrote:
hardwood wrote:
1. Democracy should be about one man one vote, not some mpigs sitting in parliament to choose the leader, or some unelected electoral college sitting somewhere to select the leader. Also we have seen the MCA madness in the counties and we wouldnt want such shennanigans to creep into bunge.
2. The proposed parliamentary system is upuss since representation in parliament is skewed against some regions with some constituencies having double or triple the population of others. So saying that the leader of the party with most seats in parliament ie MPs will become the PM is very unfair to some regions. It would only work if all constituencies have same number of voters.
3. Sharing of the top seats among the five big tribes and distributing the rest among the other tribes is taking the country back to the stone age.


If there is such a proposal,then Uhuraila will have handed Ruto a big hardwood cane with which to work their buttocks...and yes,they will be thrashed properly.I for one cannot trust anybody else with my vote least of all an Mpig and as much as I don't like that thief but circumstances would, for one, force me to be on his side!....anyway,I wait!


True. Itaanguka asubuhi na mapema.

Stand for something or you will fall for anything. Today's mighty oak is yesterday's nut that held its ground. Rosa Parks
hardwood
#7 Posted : Friday, October 25, 2019 9:56:21 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/28/2015
Posts: 9,553
Location: Rodi Kopany, Homa Bay
Why should a constituency in NE or elsewhere with 15k voters have the same voice and vote like ruiru constituency with 160k voters? Ruiru should first be split into 11 constituencies each having 15k voters before we talk about a parliamentary system. Now you know why kibaki won the presidency but had fewer parliamentary seats in 2007 leading to PEV. This skewed representation in parliament is the biggest threat to our democracy. MPigs should be elected to represent people, not some amorphous geographical landscape.

https://informationcradl.../iebc-registered-voters/
murchr
#8 Posted : Friday, October 25, 2019 10:44:51 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/26/2012
Posts: 15,008
hardwood wrote:
FRM2011 wrote:

Why don't you wait for the report first ?

Don't be like the tanga tanga crew who are up in arms yet they have no idea what is in the BBI report.

We can only make intelligent guesses.

One that I know is the health services commission. This was proposed by all players in the health sector and even the PSC.


The contents of the BBI are out there. And it's not about tangatanga or kieleweke or ohuru or looto or baba or weta. It's about me as a Kenyan and my views about how we should run the country.

https://www.the-star.co....politicians-in-cabinet/

Quote:
The BBI has recommended a parliamentary system with a ceremonial president.

The President would, however, remain the head of government and the commander-in-chief of defense forces.

In what is likely to shake the country's political landscape, the PM will be elected by Parliament from the party that wins majority seats, shifting the battle for executive power to Parliament.

To address the question of exclusivity, the 14-member panel proposes that the president, deputy president, the prime minister and the two deputies should be shared out by at least five different tribes.

However, communities that miss out on the big five plum jobs at the apex of power would share ministerial positions either based on tribes or regions to give the cabinet a national face.

The cabinet would be appointed from among members of Parliament.

According to the BBI team's findings, the accumulation of power among the few Kenyan tribes has disadvantaged small communities who feel excluded from government, hence brewing ethnic polarization.

“What we are recommending is what Kenyans, political formations and various state agencies asked for. We are not adding anything. Most Kenyans said they wanted a parliamentary system with an expanded executive,” a member of the BBI told the Star in confidence.

He went on: “After looking at the views submitted to us, we are convinced that a parliamentary system is the way to go.”






We are retrogressing as a democracy bringing back tribal chiefs. Govt jobs should be given to competent individuals not tribal chiefs after all they do not share their salaries with communities.. Or do they want to tell us that these 5 tribes will be sharing govt resources among-st their tribes? Ati missed out The F**K?

This proposal is very unconstitutional by the way
"There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
.
limanika
#9 Posted : Saturday, October 26, 2019 6:39:25 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 9/21/2011
Posts: 1,983
If the BBI contains such proposal to create 2 centres of power, and where a president elected via universal suffrage hands most of the power to a PM appointed by fat cats in parliament, then it should die on arrival.

2 centres of power is recipe for disaster.

Lolest!
#10 Posted : Saturday, October 26, 2019 9:00:35 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/18/2011
Posts: 11,783
Location: Kianjokoma
limanika wrote:
If the BBI contains such proposal to create 2 centres of power, and where a president elected via universal suffrage hands most of the power to a PM appointed by fat cats in parliament, then it should die on arrival.

2 centres of power is recipe for disaster.


Agreed 100%
Laughing out loudly smile Applause d'oh! Sad Drool Liar Shame on you Pray
newfarer
#11 Posted : Saturday, October 26, 2019 9:27:46 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/19/2010
Posts: 3,365
Location: Uganda
I have said we don't need to change out constitution .we need to change our attitude.we have the best constitution in place
punda amecheka
Shak
#12 Posted : Saturday, October 26, 2019 12:50:11 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/22/2009
Posts: 2,381
Location: Africa
Lolest! wrote:
limanika wrote:
If the BBI contains such proposal to create 2 centres of power, and where a president elected via universal suffrage hands most of the power to a PM appointed by fat cats in parliament, then it should die on arrival.

2 centres of power is recipe for disaster.


Agreed 100%

Totally agree
Jump-steady
#13 Posted : Saturday, October 26, 2019 4:41:50 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 12/1/2008
Posts: 1,087
limanika wrote:
If the BBI contains such proposal to create 2 centres of power, and where a president elected via universal suffrage hands most of the power to a PM appointed by fat cats in parliament, then it should die on arrival.

2 centres of power is recipe for disaster.



These proposals were there in the making of the 2010 constitution but were shelved due to the opposition they faced. These proposals seem to be emanating from a particular clique of people and i am very afraid that Uhuru has been hoodwinking his brother on this matter.

Two centres of power is total chaos!
2012
#14 Posted : Saturday, October 26, 2019 5:00:26 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/9/2009
Posts: 6,564
Location: Nairobi
Personally, I think it's too soon for any major amendments to our constitution. The problem is not the constitution but disregard of it with Impunity. We need to strengthen our institutional structures else not even the changes can be effective.

Stand for something or you will fall for anything. Today's mighty oak is yesterday's nut that held its ground. Rosa Parks
Fyatu
#15 Posted : Sunday, October 27, 2019 9:31:49 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 1/20/2011
Posts: 1,664
Location: Nakuru
Quick question...

Will the BBI be presented to Kenyans in the form of referendum questions or will it be discussed in parliament and exposed to a vote on the floor of the house?
Dumb money becomes dumb only when it listens to smart money
tycho
#16 Posted : Sunday, October 27, 2019 9:34:11 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,580
Location: Nairobi
hardwood wrote:
1. Democracy should be about one man one vote, not some mpigs sitting in parliament to choose the leader, or some unelected electoral college sitting somewhere to select the leader. We have seen the MCA madness in the counties and we wouldnt want such shennanigans to creep into bunge.
2. The proposed parliamentary system is upuss since representation in parliament is skewed against some regions with some constituencies having double or triple the population of others. So saying that the leader of the party with most seats in parliament ie MPs will become the PM is very unfair to some regions. It would only work if all constituencies have same number of voters.
3. Sharing of the top seats among the five big tribes and distributing the rest among the other tribes is taking the country back to the stone age.


1 and 3 are propositions without reasons and evidence.

2 is a proposition with a reason but it is not clear if the logic is valid because the analogy may not fit.

Baba on the other hand can't be the authority to validate BBI for he is interested in the outcome and neither can he be trusted to know the truth of this matter.

It is possible that Kenya will face more instability due to want of a philosophy that can sustain truth.
tycho
#17 Posted : Sunday, October 27, 2019 9:38:06 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,580
Location: Nairobi
Fyatu wrote:
Quick question...

Will the BBI be presented to Kenyans in the form of referendum questions or will it be discussed in parliament and exposed to a vote on the floor of the house?


I'd rather they began with sharing the research report, then have a people's debate then follow with emergent recommendations.
Njunge
#18 Posted : Sunday, October 27, 2019 2:49:05 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/7/2007
Posts: 897
Raila and some ODM characters are already getting worked up by those who seem not keen to support bbi.what is it they know that we don't? They should give all Kenyans an opportunity to go through the proposals and make judgement.He shouldn't read it for me.Trying to force it down my throat will not work and it doesn't matter even if the entire political class is on one side. Raila Asibebe Wanjiku ujinga!!
hardwood
#19 Posted : Monday, October 28, 2019 10:58:52 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/28/2015
Posts: 9,553
Location: Rodi Kopany, Homa Bay
kaka2za
#20 Posted : Monday, October 28, 2019 1:48:13 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/3/2008
Posts: 3,642
Location: Gwitu
Njunge wrote:
Raila and some ODM characters are already getting worked up by those who seem not keen to support bbi.what is it they know that we don't? They should give all Kenyans an opportunity to go through the proposals and make judgement.He shouldn't read it for me.Trying to force it down my throat will not work and it doesn't matter even if the entire political class is on one side. Raila Asibebe Wanjiku ujinga!!


True. Pray,what is it we are accepting or rejecting?!
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