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Devolution Revenue Sharing Formula
sqft
#101 Posted : Tuesday, August 04, 2020 12:24:13 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 1/10/2015
Posts: 701
Location: Kenya
A primary school in "marginalised" NE.








A primary school in "super developed" nairobi county


Proverbs 13:11 Dishonest money dwindles away, but whoever gathers money little by little makes it grow.
limanika
#102 Posted : Tuesday, August 04, 2020 1:20:22 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 9/21/2011
Posts: 2,029
alma1 wrote:
limanika wrote:
@SQFT, you bring some refreshing arguments, but even with this landmass/population debate, we’re just scratching the surface. If we are serious about equalization, we must then ask, where is the data?

What makes someone conclude that a particular county is relatively more developed and the other less developed? What are the parameters? What are the baselines? If access to healthcare is one of them, what is ratio of hospital beds to population? If access to education is one of them, what is the average number of students per classroom, and student to teacher ratio? Water, same argument. Turkana for instance, how many boreholes have they drilled over last 10 years?

Road network, and this is where I have a big break from jubilee, we need not upgrade all roads to tarmac standards. In most rural areas we can do by just upgrading roads to all weather status. At very least the only roads we need to have tarmacked are international trunk roads, roads branching from these trunk roads connecting county headquarters, roads from county headquarters to sub-county headquarters, major streets within towns, estate roads, etc. For all other roads, criteria to be based on number of vehicles using the roads, or whether there is a major economic activity whereby tarmacking the road will reduce cost of production.

If you consider such factors, then you will arrive at what the equalization fund should be, decide what the baseline year is, and then decide for how many years this should apply (it cannot be perpetual entitlement). In my view baseline year should be 2010 since all this data existed even then and can be retrieved. The monies given to these counties over last 8 years should be factored and deducted, since by now they should already have started to match their counterparts in some aspects with prudent use of the resources.

But the big question should always be, whatever money we give the counties, are they able to generate new money for us to be able to give them next year?

It is very surprising with all the scholarship and research in our universities nobody has a sound and sustainable formula on something so basic as how to fund devolution



My fren

Kenyans go to campus to get a job..Do a masters to join a political party or become a "manager". Do their Phd's to lead a political party or become a PS who steals money.

It's sad bad true.

Very few are willing to do what it takes to come up with new ideas of doing stuff. Right now they are selling sukumas in the boot of their car 'coz of covid"

Now you expect them to understand the difference between equal and equaitable?

Hii kitu italeta shida tupu.



This makes you wonder why govt invests in education in the first place. Take for instance a governor who (and this is real) pours bitumen on 5km stretch of road in the name of upgrading the road to tarmac standard. No base preparation no nothing. A road which would have required an engineering firm to have hired an engineer to design the road, and another contractor firm to also employ another engineer to manage the construction is done in record 1 week without input of any professionals- who could otherwise have been employed in the supply chain and earned a livelihood for a couple of months. Yet same govt is investing in training graduates and then have to deal with unemployment problems because corruption has eaten away the jobs
Uram
#103 Posted : Tuesday, August 04, 2020 4:20:51 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 10/24/2013
Posts: 449
Location: Nairobi
Poghisio/Kang'ata house leadership is a big joke.
Losing back-to-back motions.
Motion adjourned AGAIN!!!!!!

limanika
#104 Posted : Tuesday, August 04, 2020 6:52:57 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 9/21/2011
Posts: 2,029
Uram wrote:
Poghisio/Kang'ata house leadership is a big joke.
Losing back-to-back motions.
Motion adjourned AGAIN!!!!!!



Not surprising, their argument is not convincing. Not unless they go back to the basic principles and work out correct formula from scratch. If they get correct formula backed by data, I bet no one will be able to dispute. For now its like two thieves arguing who's better
Gathige
#105 Posted : Wednesday, August 05, 2020 1:20:04 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/29/2011
Posts: 2,176
limanika wrote:
Uram wrote:
Poghisio/Kang'ata house leadership is a big joke.
Losing back-to-back motions.
Motion adjourned AGAIN!!!!!!



Not surprising, their argument is not convincing. Not unless they go back to the basic principles and work out correct formula from scratch. If they get correct formula backed by data, I bet no one will be able to dispute. For now its like two thieves arguing who's better



The problem of both Kangata and Pogishio is trying to implement weekend meetings decisions arrived at Atwoli's Kajiado home. They better start engaging senators to a debate rather than threats.
"Things that matter most must never be at the mercy of things that matter least." Goethe
gk
#106 Posted : Wednesday, August 05, 2020 7:49:28 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 5/17/2008
Posts: 475
FRM2011 wrote:
Dr Ndii explained the issues very well in an article published by the online magazine, The Elephant. The untapped agricultural potential of marsabit county stood out for me.

In an ideal world we should continue giving more cash to the NFD counties. But in reality, we know the county allocation will not achieve much.

What if we used the CRA formula to allocate the national government's development budget to counties ? Again, this only happens in Utopia.

MY take ...... let's bite the bullet and go with the new formula.

BtW let us not lose sight of the fact that this is a political decision. So far, mount kenya people have been told that their money is being given to those who have larger geographical areas.
The siege mentality has worked as expected and kyuk tangatanga politicians have had to quickly change positions and join their kieleweke colleagues, lest they be branded as enemies of the community.
The weak link will definitely come from north rift. WSR will have to decide between the 700K NFD votes or 5M from central.


We need to soberly relook at our style of devolution with the interest of the entire nation in mind.
Considering that in many cases only a paltry 30% of devolved funds go into development, some counties will remain insatiable holes for wasting our scarce resources.
I still maintain that at a very minimum any county that cannot meet its recurrent expenses from local revenue should be disbanded and merged with another until this requirement is met and sustained.


wukan
#107 Posted : Wednesday, August 05, 2020 8:58:12 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 11/13/2015
Posts: 1,450
gk wrote:


We need to soberly relook at our style of devolution with the interest of the entire nation in mind.
Considering that in many cases only a paltry 30% of devolved funds go into development, some counties will remain insatiable holes for wasting our scarce resources.
I still maintain that at a very minimum any county that cannot meet its recurrent expenses from local revenue should be disbanded and merged with another until this requirement is met and sustained.




Devolution was nothing but a scam we should simply go back to local authorities. Nairobi raised 8b last financial year from local revenue and their wage bill is 12b
sqft
#108 Posted : Wednesday, August 05, 2020 9:38:32 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 1/10/2015
Posts: 701
Location: Kenya
If you are are employer you realize that you have been overpaying some employees, then you adjust the payroll and pay all your employees equally, how would that be unfair? Infact in many organisations employees who would have been overpaid normally have cash deducted from their salaries to remit the excess pay. But in the current devolution funds debate we are saying that, yes you were overpaid, you can keep all the excess cash but moving forward every employee will get his equal share.

Even the govt pays all its employees in a certain job group the same pay irrespective of the part of the country that they work. But if you work in a hardship area, they give you a hardship allowance. That is why we are saying that every one should get the same funds, but marginalised areas can get the equalisation fund.
Proverbs 13:11 Dishonest money dwindles away, but whoever gathers money little by little makes it grow.
sqft
#109 Posted : Wednesday, August 05, 2020 9:50:29 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 1/10/2015
Posts: 701
Location: Kenya
wukan wrote:
gk wrote:


We need to soberly relook at our style of devolution with the interest of the entire nation in mind.
Considering that in many cases only a paltry 30% of devolved funds go into development, some counties will remain insatiable holes for wasting our scarce resources.
I still maintain that at a very minimum any county that cannot meet its recurrent expenses from local revenue should be disbanded and merged with another until this requirement is met and sustained.




Devolution was nothing but a scam we should simply go back to local authorities. Nairobi raised 8b last financial year from local revenue and their wage bill is 12b


Yes it a big pyramid scheme. Total theft at the counties. I remember the homa bay governor explaining that he couldnt collect enough cash because wananchi have refused to pay taxes, eti they are telling him that money will come from nairobi.


Quote:
https://www.pd.co.ke/business/finance-and-investments/five-counties-record-drop-in-local-revenue-collection-6627/

Five counties collected less revenue from own sources in the first nine months of this financial year than a similar period last, a new study has revealed.

Homa Bay, Wajir, Machakos, Kisumu and Samburu registered negative own source growth in revenue growth for the first nine months of 2018/19, compared to a similar period in 2017/18 financial year.

The findings are contained in a survey conducted by Consortium of Researchers on Governance, a professional public policy and governance researchers association.

During the period under review, the survey revealed that Homa Bay registered the biggest dip in own revenue source generation from Sh72 million to Sh58 million, a 19.1 per cent decline.

Wajir’s registered the second highest decline at 16.9 per cent followed by Machakos (16.7 per cent), Kisumu (five per cent) and Samburu (three per cent).

Wajir collected Sh45 million down from Sh55 million the previous financial year, Machakos collected Sh527 million down from 633 million, Kisumu collected 553 million down from 582 while Samburu collected Sh190 million down from Sh196 million the previous financial year.

CoRG team leader, Charles McOlonde said poor performance in both Samburu and Homa Bay was a result of a leadership vacuum.

“These counties have so much revenue non-reporting since no one is fully in charge. There’s no major thing that has changed in Homa Bay or Samburu.

You can’t explain why they are losing revenue unless they are collecting but not reporting,” he said.

Speaking to Business Hub, University of Nairobi Economics lecturer Samuel Nyandemo, however, attributed the dip in revenue collection to pilferage.

“Revenue collection has declined because of stealing. How come the former county councils were collecting more revenue than some of the current county governments yet the economy was not as vibrant as it is today?” he asked.

“Most of the governors have put their right hand men in charge of collecting taxes. We must develop a centralised system of assisting the counties in collecting taxes. We need to resort to cashless transactions,” he added.
Proverbs 13:11 Dishonest money dwindles away, but whoever gathers money little by little makes it grow.
masukuma
#110 Posted : Wednesday, August 05, 2020 9:55:52 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,625
Location: Nairobi
KATIBA YES! revisit the constitution... people are very busy here trying to show us that Northern Kenya is not Marginalized... yet anyone who goes to work there gets a hardship allowance. Please... stop feeling entitled! don't use the lack of toilets in Kibra as an example of how people in Nairobi wamefinyika (after all kama hamkujenga choo kibra tangu 1965 when the money was flowing to the center... who is to blame?).

by the way is @sqft the new/old @hardwood?
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
mkenyan
#111 Posted : Wednesday, August 05, 2020 10:11:37 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 4/1/2009
Posts: 1,841
masukuma wrote:
KATIBA YES! revisit the constitution... people are very busy here trying to show us that Northern Kenya is not Marginalized... yet anyone who goes to work there gets a hardship allowance. Please... stop feeling entitled! don't use the lack of toilets in Kibra as an example of how people in Nairobi wamefinyika (after all kama hamkujenga choo kibra tangu 1965 when the money was flowing to the center... who is to blame?).

by the way is @sqft the new/old @hardwood?

truth
sqft
#112 Posted : Wednesday, August 05, 2020 10:12:35 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 1/10/2015
Posts: 701
Location: Kenya
I support wa iria 100%. Each muranga resident gets 4k while others get 60k. No justice at all.


Proverbs 13:11 Dishonest money dwindles away, but whoever gathers money little by little makes it grow.
sqft
#113 Posted : Wednesday, August 05, 2020 10:15:30 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 1/10/2015
Posts: 701
Location: Kenya
mkenyan wrote:
masukuma wrote:
KATIBA YES! revisit the constitution... people are very busy here trying to show us that Northern Kenya is not Marginalized... yet anyone who goes to work there gets a hardship allowance. Please... stop feeling entitled! don't use the lack of toilets in Kibra as an example of how people in Nairobi wamefinyika (after all kama hamkujenga choo kibra tangu 1965 when the money was flowing to the center... who is to blame?).

by the way is @sqft the new/old @hardwood?

truth


Mimi ni mkenyan.
Proverbs 13:11 Dishonest money dwindles away, but whoever gathers money little by little makes it grow.
sqft
#114 Posted : Wednesday, August 05, 2020 11:14:27 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 1/10/2015
Posts: 701
Location: Kenya
masukuma wrote:
people are very busy here trying to show us that Northern Kenya is not Marginalized... yet anyone who goes to work there gets a hardship allowance. Please... stop feeling entitled! don't use the lack of toilets in Kibra as an example of how people in Nairobi wamefinyika (after all kama hamkujenga choo kibra tangu 1965 when the money was flowing to the center... who is to blame?).



How do you define hardship and marginalisation? Are the mzungus in laikipia marginalised coz they occupy some of the harshest and remotest environments? Do you know workers in nairobi are paid higher housing allowance because nairobi is considered a "hardship area" when it comes to housing?

Also why take cash from the poor factory workers and hustlers living in kibera, mukuru, mathare, dandora etc and give it to people in other areas who are doing much better instead of providing the human basics to these suffering nairobi residents?
Proverbs 13:11 Dishonest money dwindles away, but whoever gathers money little by little makes it grow.
masukuma
#115 Posted : Wednesday, August 05, 2020 11:15:42 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,625
Location: Nairobi
sqft wrote:
I support wa iria 100%. Each muranga resident gets 4k while others get 60k. No justice at all.



Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly
it's like a comedy... ati Wakikuyu wamefinywa!! Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Of all people... Miaka yote serikalini! mumefinywa? such a joke! after tasting Equity for 5 years mumeanza kulalamika Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly . FYI... there are areas of this country that have lived generations under skewed revenue sharing and this has always caused conflict and disharmony in this country. Remember - 2007 was caused by such disparity! So tulieni! Uzeni maji mkitaka (nani amewakataza?)... but remember KATIBA YES!
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
mv_ufanisi
#116 Posted : Wednesday, August 05, 2020 11:21:12 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 1/15/2010
Posts: 589
sqft wrote:
I support wa iria 100%. Each muranga resident gets 4k while others get 60k. No justice at all.




These are the same arguments that white people make against affirmative action in the US or South Africa.

You need to drive out of Central Kenya and visit a county like Marsabit or Samburu where the ground is basically untillable and water is super scarce while the temperatures are so hot that spending 30 minutes in the sun makes you immediately thirsty.

These challenges faced by our brothers in the Northern District are not to be encountered in fertile and wet parts of Kenya such as Central.

So for whatever reason, the average citizen in Central Kenya starts off at a big advantage compared to the average citizen in the dry parts of the country who has to worry about the most basic things such as water. Which is why as you drive by dry parts of the country you see kids begging you for water. That never happens in Central.

So if we are to talk about equality, we need to at least get the citizen in dry parts of the country having access to water/food. A visit to one of these dry parts of the country would really help to dispel the feeling of injustice.
sqft
#117 Posted : Wednesday, August 05, 2020 11:22:56 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 1/10/2015
Posts: 701
Location: Kenya
masukuma wrote:
sqft wrote:
I support wa iria 100%. Each muranga resident gets 4k while others get 60k. No justice at all.



Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly
it's like a comedy... ati Wakikuyu wamefinywa!! Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Of all people... Miaka yote serikalini! mumefinywa? such a joke! after tasting Equity for 5 years mumeanza kulalamika Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly . FYI... there are areas of this country that have lived generations under skewed revenue sharing and this has always caused conflict and disharmony in this country. Remember - 2007 was caused by such disparity! So tulieni! Uzeni maji mkitaka (nani amewakataza?)... but remember KATIBA YES!


I think i need to remind you who the biggest gainers are. Muranga is not even on the list. Stop making this a kikuyu affair.



Proverbs 13:11 Dishonest money dwindles away, but whoever gathers money little by little makes it grow.
masukuma
#118 Posted : Wednesday, August 05, 2020 11:27:22 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,625
Location: Nairobi
sqft wrote:
masukuma wrote:
people are very busy here trying to show us that Northern Kenya is not Marginalized... yet anyone who goes to work there gets a hardship allowance. Please... stop feeling entitled! don't use the lack of toilets in Kibra as an example of how people in Nairobi wamefinyika (after all kama hamkujenga choo kibra tangu 1965 when the money was flowing to the center... who is to blame?).



How do you define hardship and marginalisation? Are the mzungus in laikipia marginalised coz they occupy some of the harshest and remotest environments? Do you know workers in nairobi are paid higher housing allowance because nairobi is considered a "hardship area" when it comes to housing?

Also why take cash from the poor factory workers and hustlers living in kibera, mukuru, mathare, dandora etc and give it to people in other areas who are doing much better instead of providing the human basics to these suffering nairobi residents?


Boss... unaosha kuku miguu! your agenda to tell us how people in Northern Kenya are balling and have been balling is not going to sell! Why? the people in the center don't go to these places without citing hardship! the definition is what those people quote so as to get perks whenever they are sent to work "huko". Waulize hao! why aren't people rushing north if those places are very nice to live in? Watu wa huko wameendelea sana? Even people who work for NGOs huko get "rest and reccuperation" in Nairobi... due to this "hardship"... so for the definition of "hardship" walulize hao... secondly... Kwani kibera, mukuru, mathare, dandora etc sprung up in the last decade? becasue before then you were getting money being sent to "where many people live".
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
masukuma
#119 Posted : Wednesday, August 05, 2020 11:29:26 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,625
Location: Nairobi
sqft wrote:
masukuma wrote:
sqft wrote:
I support wa iria 100%. Each muranga resident gets 4k while others get 60k. No justice at all.



Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly
it's like a comedy... ati Wakikuyu wamefinywa!! Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Of all people... Miaka yote serikalini! mumefinywa? such a joke! after tasting Equity for 5 years mumeanza kulalamika Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly . FYI... there are areas of this country that have lived generations under skewed revenue sharing and this has always caused conflict and disharmony in this country. Remember - 2007 was caused by such disparity! So tulieni! Uzeni maji mkitaka (nani amewakataza?)... but remember KATIBA YES!


I think i need to remind you who the biggest gainers are. Muranga is not even on the list. Stop making this a kikuyu affair.




I did not make it a Kikuyu affair - the video that you put here made it a Kikuyu affair! You by quoting it made it a Kikuyu Affair!
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
alma1
#120 Posted : Wednesday, August 05, 2020 11:50:32 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/19/2015
Posts: 2,815
Location: hapo
masukuma wrote:
sqft wrote:
masukuma wrote:
sqft wrote:
I support wa iria 100%. Each muranga resident gets 4k while others get 60k. No justice at all.



Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly
it's like a comedy... ati Wakikuyu wamefinywa!! Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Of all people... Miaka yote serikalini! mumefinywa? such a joke! after tasting Equity for 5 years mumeanza kulalamika Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly . FYI... there are areas of this country that have lived generations under skewed revenue sharing and this has always caused conflict and disharmony in this country. Remember - 2007 was caused by such disparity! So tulieni! Uzeni maji mkitaka (nani amewakataza?)... but remember KATIBA YES!


I think i need to remind you who the biggest gainers are. Muranga is not even on the list. Stop making this a kikuyu affair.




I did not make it a Kikuyu affair - the video that you put here made it a Kikuyu affair! You by quoting it made it a Kikuyu Affair!


I'd argue it' a kikuyu affair since it seems only Kikuyus are catching feelings about it. Hadi they are paying trolls against Sakaja..

Sad.
Thieves are not good people. Tumeelewana?

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