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7 Pages«<4567>
JUBILEE HOLDINGS
My 2 cents
#101 Posted : Wednesday, October 20, 2021 11:22:04 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 6/2/2010
Posts: 692
Ericsson wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
Ericsson wrote:
My 2 cents wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
maka wrote:
Ebenyo wrote:
Ericsson wrote:
85% of Jubilee Holdings investments is in government securities.

They should diversify to stocks and real estate.

Not now...
It's about the price of entry. If they can load up on cheap (good dividend payers) stocks today then the payoff will come in a few years. Firms like JHL can't look at small stakes but large purchases so they have to start accumulating NOW rather than wait for a decrease in price on small/light trades.

You and I can wait for a slight cheaper price since we buy "few" shares but JHL needs to deploy billions. I am also OK with them buying/holding some IFBs yielding 12.5% tax-free.


They can start with buying DTB shares - super cheap. And they are affiliated to DTB anyways.

They already own a stake in DTB
So? Buy more. Heck, if they can [regulations] they should buy 25% - 100% of the bank out and instill discipline and sense!

Of course, the 51% owners are AKFED/AKDN who are also the primary shareholders of Jubilee.

They need to send some JHL people to kick DTB's management.


JHL is building a stake in Kenya Re


How do you know this? Is it for sure?
Ericsson
#102 Posted : Wednesday, October 20, 2021 11:25:32 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/4/2009
Posts: 10,070
Location: NAIROBI
My 2 cents wrote:
Ericsson wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
Ericsson wrote:
My 2 cents wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
maka wrote:
Ebenyo wrote:
Ericsson wrote:
85% of Jubilee Holdings investments is in government securities.

They should diversify to stocks and real estate.

Not now...
It's about the price of entry. If they can load up on cheap (good dividend payers) stocks today then the payoff will come in a few years. Firms like JHL can't look at small stakes but large purchases so they have to start accumulating NOW rather than wait for a decrease in price on small/light trades.

You and I can wait for a slight cheaper price since we buy "few" shares but JHL needs to deploy billions. I am also OK with them buying/holding some IFBs yielding 12.5% tax-free.


They can start with buying DTB shares - super cheap. And they are affiliated to DTB anyways.

They already own a stake in DTB
So? Buy more. Heck, if they can [regulations] they should buy 25% - 100% of the bank out and instill discipline and sense!

Of course, the 51% owners are AKFED/AKDN who are also the primary shareholders of Jubilee.

They need to send some JHL people to kick DTB's management.


JHL is building a stake in Kenya Re


How do you know this? Is it for sure?

Watch and learn, you'll thank me later
Wealth is built through a relatively simple equation
Wealth=Income + Investments - Lifestyle
My 2 cents
#103 Posted : Wednesday, October 20, 2021 12:51:51 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 6/2/2010
Posts: 692
How do you know? Just answer in a straight forward manner.
Ericsson
#104 Posted : Wednesday, October 20, 2021 3:26:39 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/4/2009
Posts: 10,070
Location: NAIROBI
My 2 cents wrote:
How do you know? Just answer in a straight forward manner.


Check the annual report of list of shareholders.
Check the latest and previous.
This is in their website
Wealth is built through a relatively simple equation
Wealth=Income + Investments - Lifestyle
My 2 cents
#105 Posted : Wednesday, October 20, 2021 6:11:14 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 6/2/2010
Posts: 692
Ericsson wrote:
My 2 cents wrote:
How do you know? Just answer in a straight forward manner.


Check the annual report of list of shareholders.
Check the latest and previous.
This is in their website


Great
VituVingiSana
#106 Posted : Wednesday, October 20, 2021 6:47:29 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 17,637
Location: Nairobi
My 2 cents wrote:
Ericsson wrote:
My 2 cents wrote:
How do you know? Just answer in a straight forward manner.


Check the annual report of list of shareholders.
Check the latest and previous.
This is in their website

Great
2% but GoK has 60%. I hope JHL can buy 26% and get some board seats but GoK still calls the shots.
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
My 2 cents
#107 Posted : Wednesday, October 20, 2021 9:22:12 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 6/2/2010
Posts: 692
2% is hardly a position
Ericsson
#108 Posted : Wednesday, October 20, 2021 11:11:52 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/4/2009
Posts: 10,070
Location: NAIROBI
VituVingiSana wrote:
My 2 cents wrote:
Ericsson wrote:
My 2 cents wrote:
How do you know? Just answer in a straight forward manner.


Check the annual report of list of shareholders.
Check the latest and previous.
This is in their website

Great
2% but GoK has 60%. I hope JHL can buy 26% and get some board seats but GoK still calls the shots.

Board seats they need minimum 10%.
Wealth is built through a relatively simple equation
Wealth=Income + Investments - Lifestyle
Ericsson
#109 Posted : Wednesday, October 20, 2021 11:37:51 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/4/2009
Posts: 10,070
Location: NAIROBI
My 2 cents wrote:
2% is hardly a position


Building is an ongoing process.
Wealth is built through a relatively simple equation
Wealth=Income + Investments - Lifestyle
VituVingiSana
#110 Posted : Thursday, October 21, 2021 4:13:04 AM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 17,637
Location: Nairobi
Ericsson wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
My 2 cents wrote:
Ericsson wrote:
My 2 cents wrote:
How do you know? Just answer in a straight forward manner.


Check the annual report of list of shareholders.
Check the latest and previous.
This is in their website

Great
2% but GoK has 60%. I hope JHL can buy 26% and get some board seats but GoK still calls the shots.

Board seats they need minimum 10%.
Do you have any source to back up that 10% can get them a board seat?

I know you said "minimum" but that means little in this context since GoK clearly has 50%+
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
Ericsson
#111 Posted : Thursday, October 21, 2021 8:04:49 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/4/2009
Posts: 10,070
Location: NAIROBI
VituVingiSana wrote:
Ericsson wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
My 2 cents wrote:
Ericsson wrote:
My 2 cents wrote:
How do you know? Just answer in a straight forward manner.


Check the annual report of list of shareholders.
Check the latest and previous.
This is in their website

Great
2% but GoK has 60%. I hope JHL can buy 26% and get some board seats but GoK still calls the shots.

Board seats they need minimum 10%.
Do you have any source to back up that 10% can get them a board seat?

I know you said "minimum" but that means little in this context since GoK clearly has 50%+


If they want a bigger stake they could explore the other reinsurers such as Continental Re Kenya.
Britam years back expressed intention but little information is available on what happened.

https://www.businessdail...in-nigerian-firm-2055952
Wealth is built through a relatively simple equation
Wealth=Income + Investments - Lifestyle
VituVingiSana
#112 Posted : Thursday, October 21, 2021 9:53:38 AM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 17,637
Location: Nairobi
Ericsson wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
Ericsson wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
My 2 cents wrote:
Ericsson wrote:
My 2 cents wrote:
How do you know? Just answer in a straight forward manner.


Check the annual report of list of shareholders.
Check the latest and previous.
This is in their website

Great
2% but GoK has 60%. I hope JHL can buy 26% and get some board seats but GoK still calls the shots.

Board seats they need minimum 10%.
Do you have any source to back up that 10% can get them a board seat?

I know you said "minimum" but that means little in this context since GoK clearly has 50%+


If they want a bigger stake they could explore the other reinsurers such as Continental Re Kenya.
Britam years back expressed intention but little information is available on what happened.

https://www.businessdail...n-nigerian-firm-2055952

What's the connection between Continental Re and Kenya Re?
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
Ericsson
#113 Posted : Thursday, October 21, 2021 10:09:35 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/4/2009
Posts: 10,070
Location: NAIROBI
VituVingiSana wrote:
Ericsson wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
Ericsson wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
My 2 cents wrote:
Ericsson wrote:
My 2 cents wrote:
How do you know? Just answer in a straight forward manner.


Check the annual report of list of shareholders.
Check the latest and previous.
This is in their website

Great
2% but GoK has 60%. I hope JHL can buy 26% and get some board seats but GoK still calls the shots.

Board seats they need minimum 10%.
Do you have any source to back up that 10% can get them a board seat?

I know you said "minimum" but that means little in this context since GoK clearly has 50%+


If they want a bigger stake they could explore the other reinsurers such as Continental Re Kenya.
Britam years back expressed intention but little information is available on what happened.

https://www.businessdail...n-nigerian-firm-2055952

What's the connection between Continental Re and Kenya Re?


If they want a bigger stake in a reinsurance firm and don't want a firm where Gok has control/calls the shots.
Wealth is built through a relatively simple equation
Wealth=Income + Investments - Lifestyle
VituVingiSana
#114 Posted : Thursday, October 21, 2021 10:41:08 AM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 17,637
Location: Nairobi
Ericsson wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
Ericsson wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
Ericsson wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
My 2 cents wrote:
Ericsson wrote:
My 2 cents wrote:
How do you know? Just answer in a straight forward manner.


Check the annual report of list of shareholders.
Check the latest and previous.
This is in their website

Great
2% but GoK has 60%. I hope JHL can buy 26% and get some board seats but GoK still calls the shots.

Board seats they need minimum 10%.
Do you have any source to back up that 10% can get them a board seat?

I know you said "minimum" but that means little in this context since GoK clearly has 50%+


If they want a bigger stake they could explore the other reinsurers such as Continental Re Kenya.
Britam years back expressed intention but little information is available on what happened.

https://www.businessdail...n-nigerian-firm-2055952

What's the connection between Continental Re and Kenya Re?


If they want a bigger stake in a reinsurance firm and don't want a firm where Gok has control/calls the shots.
Isn't the point of investing to buy cheap and unlock value?
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
Ericsson
#115 Posted : Thursday, October 21, 2021 10:59:27 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/4/2009
Posts: 10,070
Location: NAIROBI
VituVingiSana wrote:
Ericsson wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
Ericsson wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
Ericsson wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
My 2 cents wrote:
Ericsson wrote:
My 2 cents wrote:
How do you know? Just answer in a straight forward manner.


Check the annual report of list of shareholders.
Check the latest and previous.
This is in their website

Great
2% but GoK has 60%. I hope JHL can buy 26% and get some board seats but GoK still calls the shots.

Board seats they need minimum 10%.
Do you have any source to back up that 10% can get them a board seat?

I know you said "minimum" but that means little in this context since GoK clearly has 50%+


If they want a bigger stake they could explore the other reinsurers such as Continental Re Kenya.
Britam years back expressed intention but little information is available on what happened.

https://www.businessdail...n-nigerian-firm-2055952

What's the connection between Continental Re and Kenya Re?


If they want a bigger stake in a reinsurance firm and don't want a firm where Gok has control/calls the shots.
Isn't the point of investing to buy cheap and unlock value?


Yes,
You can also buy and have synergy with it for example directing their reinsurance business through a company they have a stake in to lock in the money or profits
Wealth is built through a relatively simple equation
Wealth=Income + Investments - Lifestyle
VituVingiSana
#116 Posted : Thursday, October 21, 2021 1:22:14 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 17,637
Location: Nairobi
Ericsson wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
Ericsson wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
Ericsson wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
Ericsson wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
My 2 cents wrote:
Ericsson wrote:
My 2 cents wrote:
How do you know? Just answer in a straight forward manner.


Check the annual report of list of shareholders.
Check the latest and previous.
This is in their website

Great
2% but GoK has 60%. I hope JHL can buy 26% and get some board seats but GoK still calls the shots.

Board seats they need minimum 10%.
Do you have any source to back up that 10% can get them a board seat?

I know you said "minimum" but that means little in this context since GoK clearly has 50%+


If they want a bigger stake they could explore the other reinsurers such as Continental Re Kenya.
Britam years back expressed intention but little information is available on what happened.

https://www.businessdail...n-nigerian-firm-2055952

What's the connection between Continental Re and Kenya Re?


If they want a bigger stake in a reinsurance firm and don't want a firm where Gok has control/calls the shots.
Isn't the point of investing to buy cheap and unlock value?


Yes,
You can also buy and have synergy with it for example directing their reinsurance business through a company they have a stake in to lock in the money or profits
That would simply be concentrating their risk that they would to reinsure. Why not keep buying Kenya Re which is cheap on a NAV basis vs paying full price for Continental Re?

Doesn't Jubilee have the option of not reinsuring with anyone (except for Kenya Re) if it wants to retain more of the premiums?
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
Ericsson
#117 Posted : Thursday, October 21, 2021 6:52:02 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/4/2009
Posts: 10,070
Location: NAIROBI
VituVingiSana wrote:
Ericsson wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
Ericsson wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
Ericsson wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
Ericsson wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
My 2 cents wrote:
Ericsson wrote:
My 2 cents wrote:
How do you know? Just answer in a straight forward manner.


Check the annual report of list of shareholders.
Check the latest and previous.
This is in their website

Great
2% but GoK has 60%. I hope JHL can buy 26% and get some board seats but GoK still calls the shots.

Board seats they need minimum 10%.
Do you have any source to back up that 10% can get them a board seat?

I know you said "minimum" but that means little in this context since GoK clearly has 50%+


If they want a bigger stake they could explore the other reinsurers such as Continental Re Kenya.
Britam years back expressed intention but little information is available on what happened.

https://www.businessdail...n-nigerian-firm-2055952

What's the connection between Continental Re and Kenya Re?


If they want a bigger stake in a reinsurance firm and don't want a firm where Gok has control/calls the shots.
Isn't the point of investing to buy cheap and unlock value?


Yes,
You can also buy and have synergy with it for example directing their reinsurance business through a company they have a stake in to lock in the money or profits
That would simply be concentrating their risk that they would to reinsure. Why not keep buying Kenya Re which is cheap on a NAV basis vs paying full price for Continental Re?

Doesn't Jubilee have the option of not reinsuring with anyone (except for Kenya Re) if it wants to retain more of the premiums?


No they don't.
There are some business because of their value/worth a portion of it you have to reinsure with two or more reinsurers.
Wealth is built through a relatively simple equation
Wealth=Income + Investments - Lifestyle
VituVingiSana
#118 Posted : Thursday, October 21, 2021 10:27:27 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 17,637
Location: Nairobi
Ericsson wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
Ericsson wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
Ericsson wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
Ericsson wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
Ericsson wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
My 2 cents wrote:
Ericsson wrote:
My 2 cents wrote:
How do you know? Just answer in a straight forward manner.


Check the annual report of list of shareholders.
Check the latest and previous.
This is in their website

Great
2% but GoK has 60%. I hope JHL can buy 26% and get some board seats but GoK still calls the shots.

Board seats they need minimum 10%.
Do you have any source to back up that 10% can get them a board seat?

I know you said "minimum" but that means little in this context since GoK clearly has 50%+


If they want a bigger stake they could explore the other reinsurers such as Continental Re Kenya.
Britam years back expressed intention but little information is available on what happened.

https://www.businessdail...n-nigerian-firm-2055952

What's the connection between Continental Re and Kenya Re?


If they want a bigger stake in a reinsurance firm and don't want a firm where Gok has control/calls the shots.
Isn't the point of investing to buy cheap and unlock value?


Yes,
You can also buy and have synergy with it for example directing their reinsurance business through a company they have a stake in to lock in the money or profits
That would simply be concentrating their risk that they would to reinsure. Why not keep buying Kenya Re which is cheap on a NAV basis vs paying full price for Continental Re?

Doesn't Jubilee have the option of not reinsuring with anyone (except for Kenya Re) if it wants to retain more of the premiums?


No they don't.
There are some business because of their value/worth a portion of it you have to reinsure with two or more reinsurers.
Jubilee isn't in charge of "General Business" (51% in Kenya sold to Allianz). The Life and Medical to be reinsured can easily be shared between Kenya Re and Allianz.
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
Ericsson
#119 Posted : Thursday, October 21, 2021 11:08:06 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/4/2009
Posts: 10,070
Location: NAIROBI
VituVingiSana wrote:
Ericsson wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
Ericsson wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
Ericsson wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
Ericsson wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
Ericsson wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
My 2 cents wrote:
Ericsson wrote:
My 2 cents wrote:
How do you know? Just answer in a straight forward manner.


Check the annual report of list of shareholders.
Check the latest and previous.
This is in their website

Great
2% but GoK has 60%. I hope JHL can buy 26% and get some board seats but GoK still calls the shots.

Board seats they need minimum 10%.
Do you have any source to back up that 10% can get them a board seat?

I know you said "minimum" but that means little in this context since GoK clearly has 50%+


If they want a bigger stake they could explore the other reinsurers such as Continental Re Kenya.
Britam years back expressed intention but little information is available on what happened.

https://www.businessdail...n-nigerian-firm-2055952

What's the connection between Continental Re and Kenya Re?


If they want a bigger stake in a reinsurance firm and don't want a firm where Gok has control/calls the shots.
Isn't the point of investing to buy cheap and unlock value?


Yes,
You can also buy and have synergy with it for example directing their reinsurance business through a company they have a stake in to lock in the money or profits
That would simply be concentrating their risk that they would to reinsure. Why not keep buying Kenya Re which is cheap on a NAV basis vs paying full price for Continental Re?

Doesn't Jubilee have the option of not reinsuring with anyone (except for Kenya Re) if it wants to retain more of the premiums?


No they don't.
There are some business because of their value/worth a portion of it you have to reinsure with two or more reinsurers.
Jubilee isn't in charge of "General Business" (51% in Kenya sold to Allianz). The Life and Medical to be reinsured can easily be shared between Kenya Re and Allianz.


Not that easily as you have mentioned.
Allianz Kenya is an insurance company,so how does it reinsure
Wealth is built through a relatively simple equation
Wealth=Income + Investments - Lifestyle
VituVingiSana
#120 Posted : Friday, October 22, 2021 4:27:08 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 17,637
Location: Nairobi
Ericsson wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
Ericsson wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
Ericsson wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
Ericsson wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
Ericsson wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
Ericsson wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
My 2 cents wrote:
Ericsson wrote:
My 2 cents wrote:
How do you know? Just answer in a straight forward manner.


Check the annual report of list of shareholders.
Check the latest and previous.
This is in their website

Great
2% but GoK has 60%. I hope JHL can buy 26% and get some board seats but GoK still calls the shots.

Board seats they need minimum 10%.
Do you have any source to back up that 10% can get them a board seat?

I know you said "minimum" but that means little in this context since GoK clearly has 50%+


If they want a bigger stake they could explore the other reinsurers such as Continental Re Kenya.
Britam years back expressed intention but little information is available on what happened.

https://www.businessdail...n-nigerian-firm-2055952

What's the connection between Continental Re and Kenya Re?


If they want a bigger stake in a reinsurance firm and don't want a firm where Gok has control/calls the shots.
Isn't the point of investing to buy cheap and unlock value?


Yes,
You can also buy and have synergy with it for example directing their reinsurance business through a company they have a stake in to lock in the money or profits
That would simply be concentrating their risk that they would to reinsure. Why not keep buying Kenya Re which is cheap on a NAV basis vs paying full price for Continental Re?

Doesn't Jubilee have the option of not reinsuring with anyone (except for Kenya Re) if it wants to retain more of the premiums?


No they don't.
There are some business because of their value/worth a portion of it you have to reinsure with two or more reinsurers.
Jubilee isn't in charge of "General Business" (51% in Kenya sold to Allianz). The Life and Medical to be reinsured can easily be shared between Kenya Re and Allianz.


Not that easily as you have mentioned.
Allianz Kenya is an insurance company,so how does it reinsure
Yes, it is that easy. It's not rocket science.

Who said Jubilee should reinsure with Allianz KE?
Allianz (the partner and fellow shareholder) is a HUGE firm with a reinsurance arm https://www.allianzre.com/en_GB.html
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
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